Better Ways to Move Mountains

[MaglevForever]

I have been moving a lot of earth lately. I am gradually getting better at drilling diagonal tracks through the mountains.

Straight track pieces facing East-West when placed next to one another will flatten any terrain obstacles. This gives you North-South track and is the easiest direction.

Straight track pieces facing North-South require being laid side by side on flatter land and an East-West piece laid across their end to flatten the land. Then delete this East-West piece and extend both North-South tracks by one cell. Repeat as required. This is a bit more work but moderately easy.

Diagonal track pieces requires more expense and effort.

In a SE-NW direction, turn on grid view and figure out the place where a piece of diagonal track can be laid in the opposite direction (NE-SW) so that it will intersect at the points of the cells of the final track. Starting on flat ground lay another piece next to it so that the final track will go through the point on it too. Repeat until you reach the other side of the mountain. Erase all the NE-SW fragments and lay the final track.

In a NE-SW direction, requires using straight track in both directions shaped like an arrow with one empty cell at the point of the arrow. Extend the cut by duplication so that the pattern is maintained and there is always an empty cell at the point of the arrow. Once these temporary pieces are erased there will be room for two or even three tightly packed NE-SW lines in the cut.

Anybody use these methods? These are to make a level cut just like a tunnel. I will post later about some techniques to influence the grades where smoothing is more desirable than bulldozing.

[jeffryfisher]

I do use both grading and extreme leveling. However, I have never been able to figure out why some plots of land flatten for me while others obstinately resist my efforts (and even drag existing track to their level rather than having their level brought in line with the existing track).

 

One thing I can usually count on though: When a (diagonal) track segment points directly at a vertex, it "pins" that vertex so that its elevation won't change. When nearby segments are built around that vertex, neighboring vertices will be forced to the same elevation.

 

A problem that I sometimes run into: A cut becomes so deep that I can no longer click into it from any direction. Tactics become limited after that point. If two consecutive cells become obscured, then it's not possible to delete a track segment inside. The track bed is then pretty much set unless I want to blow a million ripping away a layer of mountain with a parallel track lay just so I can see what I'm doing.

[MaglevForever]

There are some irregularities associated with leveling. Especially with grading, will go there a little later. As long as you start leveling from flat ground these methods should work so long as there are no objects nearby.

 

Yes, deep cuts are a problem. But what I will do instead of laying parallel track, is lay a piece just enough to bring the mountain top down enough for me to work. By this I mean anywhere in any direction, normally around 5 cells. Experiment and pull the trigger when the bottom of the cut is visible again.

 

Big tip: When laying parallel track lay one piece at a time with an empty cell between. This is the same as the cheat for level ground, but I feel no regret when I am blowing away money anyway. Just a bit less now. The mountain track cost is not halved, but I estimate it to be a saving of around 35%.

 

 

Here are some pictures of what I am doing when leveling diagonals:

 

SE-NW (camera is looking SE)

 

NE-SW (camera is looking NE)

[outofmage]

Good job Meglev! 

I have a cheaper way to level NE-SW diagonal routes.

How did you insert images? 

[MaglevForever]

Thanks.

 

The way I uploaded the pictures: I clicked on the More Reply Options button below the normal reply post box. Then I clicked on the Choose Files button next to the paper clip which is below the advanced larger reply box. Once you have uploaded the file a small thumbnail of it will appear just above the paper clip. On the opposite (right-hand) side of the page there are two click-able options, Add to Post and Delete. Click on Add to Post and it will insert a placeholder for the picture. Preview Post is at the end of the reply section next to Add Reply. When you click on it you will see the image appear in your post as it will appear on the forum.

 

After you have uploaded it once, you can always put it in other posts using the My Media button next to the Smiley button above the reply box.

 

See if it works, I want to see what you do with NE-SW diagonal routes.

[outofmage]

This is the way I level the NE-SW routes:

[outofmage]

It works! Thank you, Meglev.

[MaglevForever]

Thanks, outofmage. This will save some more money. Works well.

 

I just found out when comparing methods for NE-SW routes that my method doesn't work on all maps. I found that on those maps you can use the same method as for SE-NW routes. The American maps I tried seemed to work, but not some of the European ones. I have no idea why.

[jeffryfisher]

Breathtaking! It's not just the audacity of plowing through the spine of a great mountain range, but the national map shows that you've paved over most of the land in the territories open to you. You have truly captured the domineering spirit of mighty 19th century industrialists!

 

Let me know how much it costs (and how many minutes it takes you) to electrify ~1935.

 

PS: See my warning about the Trojan horse before you try to download or (gasp) install that engine replacement program in the other thread (it is infected, and I just finished losing 1.5 hours disinfecting my computer after merely dragging the contents out of the zip file -- I didn't even run the EXE.

[outofmage]

Thank you for your praise. All thanks to the passengers in 19th century travel across the continent, the cost to pave those mountains can be covered.

 

I have not played to 1935, but I can calculate. I have 140,000 miles of track now. Based on $14K per segment, multiply 7,000, it should cost 100,000K. But it must be more in 1935,  since North America has a 1.5% economy growth and 73% starting point. I started in 1830, so cities will be very big then, these tracks won't be enough.

 

The time, well, based on my previous experience, I guess 10 minutes would be enough because most of my tracks are straight.

[MaglevForever]

outofmage, I am really impressed how many diagonal tracks you created in your game. Well done. The designers of most scenarios don't seem to know about crossing at the cell edges. Often they make reserve cells in long, straight lines. It is really too bad if you have a straight track right across America if you effectively cut the continent by that same track.

 

Would you care to tell us what you are doing with two companies with the same name and similar amounts of cash?

[outofmage]

Yes, diagonal tracks do give more traffic capacity of the whole map. Diagonal track crossing loophole is just one of the many features that designers themselves didn't realize.

 

What I am doing with two companies, it has a lot of purposes as I continued playing. First, as the citis grew and some of the houses were not covered by my stations, and the demand level of all stations drop to 0-1. So I established the second company to buy cheaper trains and stations with lower league  managers, I can make these asset even cheaper by dumping 49% of the shares of the new company and merge it. But I changed my mind and wanted to see if the overhead fee can drop if the first company is only feed by miscellaneous, but it turns out not to. But I find it to split the whole business into two companies have a lot of advantages. One will own all the tracks and the other will own the trains and stations. The one owning the tracks can hire the 30% overhead cheaper manager, because it gets most of the revenue and pays a lot of overhead fee. In my scenario, 150 million profit will pay 20 million overhead.  The other one runs trains and gets revenue from stations, this one can hire George Pullman. More over, the AI seems to not care that much of cargo disappearing of other companies' station. So I put some raw material stations into the track company, so that the train company won't change my routes even I resign as chairman. This will give me +25% computer revenue instead of -25% human revenue.

[MaglevForever]

Interesting, thanks. Sounds like you are really taking the game to the limit. It's really fascinating that they both ended up a similar size.

 

I am glad that you worked out how to get the AI not to change your routes. Otherwise you just have a mess.

 

The difference between -25% and +25% is +66% revenue. Most of this revenue is pure profit except roughly -13% overhead (in your scenario). So you could say that you get almost 58% of revenue handed to you as profit. Nice.

[outofmage]

The two companies is adjusted by dividends to close amount of cash, I want to make assets-only companies. Actually they made very different profits.

 

The difference between -25% and 25% is theoretically 66%. But in real games, it seems like the computer has a completely different way of calculate revenue. I did some tests, this figure can various from 10% to 200%. It majorly depends on the distance and type of goods, more distance the goods travel, less revenue increase from computer. It also seems like computer get a much better revenue for freight than passenger. No matter how, computer will get more revenue, but not very much in my games.

 

Edit: The difference of -25% human revenue modifier and +25% human revenue modifier is not 66% either.

[MaglevForever]

Here's a "horseshoe" method that works in both diagonal directions. The key is to begin the next "horseshoe" opposite the place the last "horseshoe" is joined to the previous one. Then bring it around to join that last one on the opposite side. This method works because a joining track piece locks its height level in more securely than any empty cells surrounding it.

 

This method is mainly for fun. It can also be useful if you want 3 parallel diagonal tracks that can be crossed on the corners.

[jeffryfisher]

Wow  :o

 

Imagine the mood swings of the farmers, mines etc along your route... "Hooray, the railroad will link us to distant markets"... "Wha'dya mean their gonna bulldoze our family business???"

 

What's your company's national goodwill rating in the aftermath of so much bulldozing?

[outofmage]

Wow  :O

 

Imagine the mood swings of the farmers, mines etc along your route... "Hooray, the railroad will link us to distant markets"... "Wha'dya mean their gonna bulldoze our family business???"

 

What's your company's national goodwill rating in the aftermath of so much bulldozing?

Maybe that's why bulldoze industries cost so much.

[MaglevForever]

My goodwill is Atrocious. I don't seem to notice any economic effects from bad goodwill. Only the cost of territory rights.

 

I try to build around all the current industry on the map, even this means digging through the biggest mountain. I have only bulldozed a handful of industries and houses. No more than 5 total.

 

I always thought that one of the main reasons for the high cost of industry was to make it harder for ruthless individuals in multi-player games to bulldoze everything flat wherever they could around their competitors.

[outofmage]

Maglev, this reminds me Todd Bergantz's favorite  strategy introduced in the Strategy Guide. And I quote

"Favorite strategy: Start a company, watch to see where your competitors lay their track, select bulldozer, and then bulldoze the likely major industries before they can put their station down, effectively making their track a waste. Not a very good strategy, mind you, but a fun one."

 

I don't know if they decide to increase the bulldoze cost because of him during development or they just made up some random number for each industry to bulldoze.

I prefer to believe the later one.

[jeffryfisher]

My goodwill is Atrocious. I don't seem to notice any economic effects from bad goodwill. Only the cost of territory rights.

I've come to the conclusion that goodwill's only certain effect is on territory rights. The rules almost completely ignore goodwill, so it's hard to say. There's still an outside chance that goodwill influences cargo creation.

 

I always thought that one of the main reasons for the high cost of industry was to make it harder for ruthless individuals in multi-player games to bulldoze everything flat wherever they could around their competitors.

The game won't allow bulldozing buildings within the radius of a competitor's station. The AI is safe because the game locks up while it builds track and station together. In multiplayer, maybe a player could defend against this tactic by building the remote station first and then connecting it to his network.

 

However, I must admit that I've never gotten multiplayer to work, so I don't really understand it. I keep the game on pause for long stretches of thinking while building etc, so multiplayer does not even appeal to me.

 

BTW, Isn't the cost of bulldozing an building the same as buying that industry as an investment?

[MaglevForever]

Bulldozing costs 75% of the purchase price of an industry. Since houses cost 75,000 to bulldoze, the game must value them at 100,000. I guess it is just a random number. In RRT 3 bulldozing industries costs full price, unless you own the industry, in which case it costs 50% of what you paid for it.

 

I haven't tried multiplayer either. My game always almost-freezes trains when I am laying track, I can't imagine what would happen to another player. I could imagine it would be buggy. Simple, easy, quick maps might be okay, but it would be very different strategically. Basically, a race to some goal. Some people might be fun to play with if they are respectful to you. I wouldn't mind trying it one day.

 

P.S. Amazingly, my goodwill in New Mexico recovered to Perfect in 4 months! I only delivered a handful of loads in that time.

[outofmage]

Maglev, actually you can own a house with some memory change, it worth 100K.

 

Good work about your goodwill. Since you tried to haul every insight, you deserve it.

[cogeo]

The levelling methods showcased here not only cost a lot, destroy landscape etc, they actually level too much land!

 

How about a method that levels only the tiles you need to lay the track? Here is a pic:

 

 

The grade is 0% along the entire lenght of the track, the tiles around it not affected (more acurately, very little affected) and the industries and trees in their place. The "cost" (in track cells, because I play only scenarios with the "Limited Track Building" restriction turned on), including the laying of the actual track, is 3 units per track cell for the SW-NE direction, and 2.5 units per track cell for the NW-SE direction (3 if you lay the track using the drag method, instead of one piece at a time). The only prob is I need to write a small tutorial for this.

 

About goodwill, it relates to the "public image" of the company, and it only affects access rigths prices. Nothing to do with the accounting goodwill. So no reason to worry about it, unless you are about to purchase rights. Goodwill can be improved by certain managers, but mostly by serving your stations well: high turnover in as many stations as possible, timely deliveries, no pax or freight cargos left to rot/disappear.

[akuenzi]

Please do write a tutorial!  :)

[outofmage]

cogoe, I also want to know how you did that.