How to determin the economic conditions ?

[Glaun]

My apologies in advance if this has been answered previously. I couldn't find a thread.

How do you determin the economic condition (Cooling, Normal, etc) during the year after it has been once flashed on the screen. The Annual Report (A)does tell you the condition, but I think only at the time the report comes out  once a year. Is there another report or screen that shows the economic condition at the time I ask for them? I have mashed all the buttons I can with no results.

Thanks in advance.

[Gwizz]

After one year the economic conditions appear at the bottom of the annuals first page.

Press A to jump to that page.  It sounds like you already know this.  There may be some control Keys that give what you want.  If I run into the answer I'll post it.

[Glaun]

Thanks Wiz for the prompt answer. Yes, I remembered about the "A" key and report.

I need to clear up my question a bit.

When there is a change in economic conditions, it is reported in "The "Financial Journal" on the monitor. The change is up or down a level every 6 to 18 months. (P18 PopTop Official Strategy Guide RR2)

During that 6 to 18 months the "Annual Report" (Hot Key A) states the condition of the economy as of the time of the report.

I would like to know the condition of the economy at any specific time during the 6 to 18 months period (Primarily to know when a good time to expand would be).

So here are the three questions I have:

1 The newspaper recall function would not recall Journal headline. Is there any other way to determine the current economy?

2 When the Journal headlines a financial condition ie "Economy Forecast, Growing Prosperity", does this mean the conditions are improved at the time of the announcement, or will it take place in the next quarter?

3 Is it possible to retrieve the Journal headline at any time prior to the next Journal.

I have been playing RRT since the DOS days and if I ever knew the answer to the above I have forgotten it. Now I am so old I can't remember how to find it

Thanks, Glaun

Oh! and allow me to introduce myself to you GWiz, I too have crept pass the 70 year old mark. (75)

[Gwizz]

1 The newspaper recall function would not recall Journal headline. Is there any other way to determine the current economy?

2 When the Journal headlines a financial condition ie "Economy Forecast, Growing Prosperity", does this mean the conditions are improved at the time of the announcement, or will it take place in the next quarter?

3 Is it possible to retrieve the Journal headline at any time prior to the next Journal.

There is an increasing number of the 70 + group that play RT.

Yea, getting old is good  ::) but to a point.  My memory does challenge me more.

Replacing roting ties on my low budget Grand scale RR is more of a challenge.

My HO/hon3/hon30 gauge RR room is now full of boxes in storage blocking the layout, But I still play RT2 a lot.  

I never did care a lot about RT3, possibly because of what PopTop dumped to get the game out the door.

I'll try to answer some of your questions.  I seldom pay much attention to the economy any more.

For what I remember :

A good time to expand is when the economy is down.  Track costs are the same while profits are down.

Recalling headlines:   I believe it is possible, I'll look for the control keys required.

financial condition:    Yes conditions change with the announcements.

Retrieve the Journal:  If you mean annual report, it can be retrieved but doesn't update until the end of each year.

                              Each RR has books that give some financial reports and is updated monthly.

Gwizz

PS: We have a friend who lives in Snow Flake AZ.  Without me looking at a map is that close to you?

[RSimpkinuk57]

Want to know the current state of the economy? Look at the Prime Rate! I reckon that usually gives a pretty good clue.

[Glaun]

Great idea. Thanks.

Still curious. When the "Financial Journal" (not the Annual Report) is displayed it announces something like, "Forecast Cooling"or some other economic condition. Do you know if this condition is effective immediately? Or is it a forecast and will take place in the future? (most likely the next quarter)

As I understand it the Annual Report only states the current condition and won't report differently until the next Annual Report at the end of the year. ( The Annual Report is the one you get with the A key. The Journal comes up randomly and I haven't found a way to recall the Journal)

[Silverback]

N

[Silverback]

for Newspaper  - see this URL here on this very site

http://theterminal.dune2k.com/?p=rrt2-other-hotkey

;D

[Glaun]

Thanks Silver,

I did know about the "N" hot key. I tried it in the Alaska scenario and over the course of the game when I hit the N key,I would get a message that no newspaper reports were available. Must have been a key error on my part or a bug. Either way, thanks for all the input.

[Silverback]

Interesting - The newspapers aren't part of the saved game files, but if you've seen a newspaper in your current session and haven't reloaded a save after seeing a newspaper then  N should work. (it does for me anyway I just checked and I can scroll through them if there's more than one)   

[Gwizz]

Well!  I thought I had some game code used to test the game engine.

I had saved it on some old floppies. That floppy seems to have disappeared.

The floppy may have lost a battle with a magnetic paper clip thus no longer reads.

[Glaun]

I asked

"When the "Financial Journal" (not the Annual Report) is displayed it announces something like, "Forecast Cooling"or some other economic condition. Do you know if this condition is effective immediately? Or is it a forecast and will take place in the future? (most likely the next quarter)"

I tested. As soon as the announcement of an  economic condition appears in Journal, the economic condition exists.

[cogeo]

Sorry for the late reply.

RSimpkinuk57 is right. To determine the (current) economic condition look at the Prime Rate (Finances tab) of any company (this is not affected by the company's credit rating). The rates are:

- 5%: Booming

- 6%: Prosperity

- 7%: Normal

- 8%: Recession

- 9%: Depression

Also, if you can modify maps, you can add an event reporting the economic condition in the annual report (which is not only "annual" indeed).

[Glaun]

Very helpful, Cogeo,

Thanks

[TheDS]

Cogeo's list is right, but let me add a little more information.

At the end of every third month (March, June, September, December), the quarter ends and your company pays its stock dividends (if any). However, at the START of every third month the game checks to see if the economic condition changes.

Thus, if you think the economy is going to go up, buy your stocks before then and you'll get a small boost in their value. Likewise, if you think they're going down, sell before then to save a little money. If your margin buying is tight, a down-shifting economy will kill your player's stockvalue just enough that you go deep into the hole and maybe never come out.

At that point, you've often got to issue a bond and use your company to buy back stock, or if you're good, you've got enough stock in some other company and can jump to them and robber-barron them to save yourself. (And hopefully you've got enough money to get back.)

MOST of the time, the prime rate will tell you which of the 5 economic conditions you're in, but there are a few rare scenarios that adjust the prime rate a point or two. If you know you're playing one of those, and they bump it down, then when you're in Boom times, you make 0% interest on your cash on hand!

Last little tip: When the economy does poorly, track-building costs go down, and when it does well, they go up. I don't know if maintenance does too, but it makes sense. In a bad economy, anyone is willing to work for scraps.

I've got a lot more tips in my strategy guide, which is linked up in my sig. (I'm also selling off a bunch of games on Ebay this week; check that out too if you'd like.)

[cogeo]

Just some notes on TheDS's post above:

Indeed, the divident is payed at the end of every third month, but economic condition may not change at the start of every third month, actually it may only change at the start of March or September.

Boosting personal wealth by employing such "short-term" stock market moves, is not really the highlight of this game, because the game "robs" you in two ways:

- The broker's commission is way too high, I think 5% of the transaction value! So if you sell and buy a certain amount of stock, you may have well paid a 10% of the stock value. You have to take this into account when buying/selling stock.

- The number of shares you can buy or sell is not really an option, it's 4% of the shares you own (1,000 shares is the minimum of course). So if you own 100,000 shares of a company, you can buy or sell 4,000 shares at a time, not less. But here is the problem, the whole transaction is carried out at the max (if you buy) or the min (if you sell) price. For example, if the share price is $60, and you could buy 4,000 shares in 1,000-share steps, the price you pay would be something like this: $62, $64, $65 and $67, in total $258K. But if buy these 4,000 at once, the price for the whole package will be $67, ie you will pay $268K! This makes short-term stock rather inexpedient, even for relatively small companies, and prohibitive for large companies.

Do a simple test, sell a certain number of shares, and buy them again; then check your position begore and after the transactions. For larger companies, you would have lost an awful lot of money!

The best practice for scenarios that require personal worth as a win condition is to try to acquire as much stock as possible (ideally all of the stock), when your company is still small. It will be much harder later. And don't "waste" money on paying dividents to... the others! Paying dividents also raises the stock price, and this makes harder to buy more stocks; on the other hand gives you some money too, but I think the share price increase makes it not a really good practice. If your company has money to spare, better buy back some stock, and preferably after you buy some stock for yourself (on margin). Also keep in mind that buying back stock at a price lower than your stocks book value (per share), increases the book value (of the remaining stocks) further, while buying them back at a higher price lowers it (but still increases the stock price, temporarily) - simple maths. However, buying stocks (personally) and/or buying-back stock, even at high price may still be advantageous, if your comapny grows, and you can see one year or two of high profits, eg if you have quite a few loaded trains, soon to deliver their cargo. The best times to buy shares is just before a lucrative train delivers its cargo, in February or August (if the economic condition seems likely to improve), and when an AI player sells. Also the share price may rise or fall abruptly at the end of the year. After a good one or two years it may rise significantly, so in such a case you should buy in December. And if your company has not fared very well for a couple of years or so, you should better wait for January (unless your company owns a good lot of profitable industry - their profits are booked at the end of the year).

As for track building and maintenance, indeed in a bad economy track building costs less. Track maintenance is fixed, 6% per year (0.5% per month) of the track value (Balance Sheet). So laying track during bad economic times costs less (initially) and requires less maintenance later. Also many managers offer lower track-laying benefits. Pls also take into account that the track price comprises two components, the price needed to lay the track itself (which is quite low actually), and the amount needed to flatten or smooth the terrain (known as "mountainous track building") and build on trees - you pay maintenance for these too. Bulldozing the trees along the track's route (before laying the track) does not cost more actually, it results in "losses" (currently) and lowers track value (and maintenance, later), but the amount required to lay the track (plus bulldoze trees) or alternatively lay the track on wooded terrain is exactly the same. If you are using the "stitching" technique, this causes the following interesting effects:

- Sharply reduces profits (or causes losses) for the current year - Losses are booked under the "Track Maintenance" entry, so (for this year) this includes both the "normal" maintenance and the losses due to stitching.

- Sharply reduces your company's goodwill (it can easily become "Atrocious"), so don't use it if your about to buy access rights in the next few years.

- Lowers your company's book value and track value.

- Lower track value means lower maintenance costs for the following years.

So stitching is not so expensive actually, results in smooth and cheaper (finally) track, and pays for itself in some 16 game years. Ie it is advisable for long games, not the 20- or 25-year scenarios. But it may still be an option, if grades are otherwise hard to negotiate for your current (and expected) locomotives - you will make-up the losses from lower running costs later (lower track maintenance, lower fuel and engine maintenance costs due to faster journey times and maybe fewer trains) and higher revenue (due to faster delivery/less rotting). I use it extensively, but this is just my playing style and the type of maps I prefer.

[Glaun]

Cogeo ^^^

Your post was full of information, much of it unknown to me. Also enjoyed the tips on the "how to" part of finance.

Only one question. While I am sure that I have read the technique under some other name, please give me a brief description of the "Stitching Technique"

thanks for the info.

Glaun

[Gwizz]

Cogeo, and TheDS'  Excellent posts.

Comment on part of the,  TheDS'  Post below.

"MOST of the time, the prime rate will tell you which of the 5 economic conditions you're in, but there are a few rare scenarios that adjust the prime rate a point or two. If you know you're playing one of those, and they bump it down, then when you're in Boom times, you make 0% interest on your cash on hand."

Comment:

At the same time, instead of paying interest on any bonds you floated, you can earn interest on these bonds.  I will normally average 6% to 8% interest on reverse interest bonds; But, there was one bond that earned 19% interest.

I will sometimes move my flag to the AI that has the best reverse interest on its' bonds.

I programed the prime rate on my Economy Map to emulate the Federal Reserve's practice of printing money to buy bonds.  (Not exactly the same thing, But Tycoons do own the Federal reserve)

So, it costs the Federal Reserve less money to print the money to buy the bonds and it then collects the much larger earned payments to retire the bonds plus earned reverse interest.  As a tycoon I take the reverse Interest as if I owned the Federal Reserve as well as the RR.

In real life this is not legal because of the economical mess that past Tycoons made;

But then what is legal in today's government.  8)

 

The map has over-lapping randon generation for the prime rates in the program.

I've never tried to figure out just where the reverse interest comes from.  I know that

my cash figure turns red;  But, I can still spend the red money in the normal way.

Glaun,  Since we posted at the same time, I will back up and re-post.

Added:  Stitching is a method of leveling the roadbed and even building a RR cut in a hill.

            There are different methods of placing the track cells.

            I use the stitching method a lot by placing a track cell at a right angle to the end of my track.

            Then placing the next track cell at a right angle to the last.  The cells don't connect.

            A simpler version is laying all track cells side by side never connecting.

            With both methods you bulldozer the stitched track cells and then lay your RRs track.

Doing this makes the land that the track cell occupies, level with the track cell next to it.

[akuenzi]

Comment on part of the, TheDS' Post below.

"MOST of the time, the prime rate will tell you which of the 5 economic conditions you're in, but there are a few rare scenarios that adjust the prime rate a point or two. If you know you're playing one of those, and they bump it down, then when you're in Boom times, you make 0% interest on your cash on hand."

Comment:

At the same time, instead of paying interest on any bonds you floated, you can earn interest on these bonds. I will normally average 6% to 8% interest on reverse interest bonds; But, there was one bond that earned 19% interest.

I will sometimes move my flag to the AI that has the best reverse interest on its' bonds.

I programed the prime rate on my Economy Map to emulate the Federal Reserve's practice of printing money to buy bonds. (Not exactly the same thing, But Tycoons do own the Federal reserve)

So, it costs the Federal Reserve less money to print the money to buy the bonds and it then collects the much larger earned payments to retire the bonds plus earned reverse interest. As a tycoon I take the reverse Interest as if I owned the Federal Reserve as well as the RR.

In real life this is not legal because of the economical mess that past Tycoons made;

But then what is legal in today's government. 8)

The map has over-lapping randon generation for the prime rates in the program.

I've never tried to figure out just where the reverse interest comes from. I know that

my cash figure turns red; But, I can still spend the red money in the normal way.

GWizz -- You're going to have to take this a little slower for someone like me, as I couldn't quite follow this. You're saying that you 'borrow' the $500K bond... and then instead of paying interest on it, you actually EARN interest on it instead? And at the average rate of 6-8% on up to 19%? You mention programming something into a map you made -- Is this the way you were able to do this reverse-interest thing, or is this possible on any map if you know what to do?

Forgive me for being slow, but if you could clarify this a little bit, I'd enjoy learning how to do this!

[Gwizz]

I play with the economic settings. Normally I increase them. I also use trigger events to change the economics.

I went to look up the economic changes made on the Economy map. I think the map must be on the XP computer's hard drive that is waiting for repairs.

I have finally been able to get the computer to boot and load. A friend thinks I may have a solder joint problem on the mother board.

I've checked most of the connections. They all look OK. I have yet to touch each with the hot tip of my solder gun. It is so easy to mess the board up.

I watched a board maker in Spokane build custom boards. It was really something to see a robot machine solder several hundred connections all at the same time.

Talk about that clean room. There was no dust in that room. The soldering itself was done in small extra clean cubicals behind windows. I was only allowed to look at the operation through the windows.

I may have the Economy Map on a thumb drive (USB drive) or on my backup hard drive. I thought I posted it. I'll keep looking and as soon as I find it, I will give you a better answer on how I programed reverse interest. Mathmaticly I'm not sure exactly how it works in the game. The action must be connected to a number of random events.

[Gwizz]

Pulled the Economy Map off of a USB stick. Started to make a flow chart like the ones I use to make for programing IBM punch cards.

I didn't remember making the Economy Map so complicated. I'll shorten my answer below as a mathmatical flow chart would be very time consuming to construct.

Starting economy level was about normal. All changes that effected the economy was done with trigger events on this map.

Some of these events were choice events and others randon events. How the economy proceeded depended a great deal on how much of a risk taker the player is.

random events are just that random. Depending upon which order the random events fire will control the economy more or less.

some events will change:

cargo values up and or down.

Events that are for the AI Railroads only and others for players railroad only or affect both in the same event.

credit rating starting with 3 grades lower then up or down.

Prime rate starting 3 points higher then up or down.

ecomomy up or down normally not more than one level at a time.

Stock prices up or down.

merger premiums lower by 35% one random event.

Etc.

I patterned the map in a general way, on how the governments world wide was handling the economy in real life.

Few seem to understand just what happened. It was a shell game and that is about how the economy acted on the Ecomony Map.

I'll post the Economy map here.

Economy map # 1.71.MP2.zip