About raising taxes

[Gwizz]

At an event Wednesday night, sponsored by Women of Washington, Washington Policy Center, and the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, Steve Moore, economist and Wall Street Journal editorialist spoke.  He had some interesting facts.

When Reagan took office, he inherited an American Economy in shambles (not unlike our situation today).  He did an amazing thing: he cut taxes.  The even more amazing fact was, after the 1981 tax cut, tax revenues went

[maddog]

When Reagan took office, he inherited an American Economy in shambles (not unlike our situation today).  He did an amazing thing: he cut taxes.  The even more amazing fact was, after the 1981 tax cut, tax revenues went

[Gwizz]

That reduction in taxes helped me and in no way was I rich.

I didn't save those extra dollars from the decrease in my taxes.  I spent them.

I do remember those extra charges that movers added to the moving charge.

They were crooks and crooks are present everywhere.  I believe most were convicted of the crime.

The Saving and Loan problem was something I was never involved in as I was too busy at the time.  I don't remember it happening from anything government did.  It was because of what the Loan industries did on there own. Many went belly up.  I was surprised that there was even a bailout. But, in that case the bailout did work.  And, It did not put the whole country into a tail spin like we have now.

During that time period I had the opportunity to visit a savings and loan special million dollar house with a friend.  It was used for the companies out of the area investors for over night stays.

The house had living quarters in the rear for a live in maid. gardener and a cook.  It had a lot of glass and high vaulted ceilings.  What I remember the most was the fireplace.  This fire place was about 25 feet wide and took a 16 foot back log. The log was fired for it full length with gas burners in front. To load the log it had its' own robotic arm that was stored outside up under the eaves of the roof.  The control panel was behind a door next to the fireplace and the tall windows.  Using the arm, the overhead panels were opened exposing the arm.  The arm came down and rolled on a overhead track along the house to the back where the logs were delivered by a log truck.  A log was picked up, turned vertical and carried back to the front of the house where two glass window panels opened up and a ceiling panel folded down near the top of the fire place.  The arm rolled inside with the log, turned it horizontal and placed it in the fire place, pushing what was left of the old burnt log forward directly over the gas burners.  I didn't get to see this last part of the operation, since the fireplace already had a new log in place.

This Savings and Loan Company stayed solvent during the meltdown.  But I have always thought it was this kind of activity that sunk so many of the Saving and Loans.  They were trying to out do each other and didn't have the necessary capital to do so. But tried anyway.  If there was a de-regulation problem I wasn't aware it it.

[maddog]

That reduction in taxes helped me and in no way was I rich.

I didn't save those extra dollars from the decrease in my taxes.  I spent them.

Unfortunately, didn't help my parents (school teacher and small time farmer/retired Air Force Sgt). My father quit farming in the 80s because of the bad economy.

I do remember those extra charges that movers added to the moving charge.

They were crooks and crooks are present everywhere.  I believe most were convicted of the crime.

That's just it. IIRC, it wasn't illegal (...but it was and still is immoral). If there had been proper regulation, it wouldn't have happened to begin with. The government went too far in deregulating trucking.

The Saving and Loan problem was something I was never involved in as I was too busy at the time.  I don't remember it happening from anything government did. <lots of snippage here>

You hit it on the head! It was because of something the government under Reagan didn't do. It didn't regulate the S&Ls. They were able to do these extravagant things because there wasn't oversight.

My overall point is that the economy performs poorly when you start to use laissez-faire economics. The closer to laissez-faire, the worse off the country is as a whole for the people. The tiny minority of really wealth people do really well but not everyone else.

--Ray.

[Gwizz]

I agree. We do need regulation for protection from the white collar crooks.

If the Dems. hadn't removed the regulations from the banking industry, I doubt we would have the situation we are in today where we still have crooks trying to do their thing.

I'm curious: What did your parents do with money saved from the tax reduction? 

When the economy is in trouble, efforts to fix the problem will normally not help every one equally and at most have a slow affect on a come back to normalcy.

[maddog]

If the Dems. hadn't removed the regulations from the banking industry, I doubt we would have the situation we are in today where we still have crooks trying to do their thing.

The republicans wanted it too and the banking industry lobbied for it. This isn't a democratic failure. I watched a big banker who's name I have forgotten on CSPAN within the last two weeks who spoke at a convention recently (inside the last month or so as he talked about the recent collapse) about his own history since the late 1970s for push for government deregulation of banking.

I'm curious: What did your parents do with money saved from the tax reduction?

That's just it. If there was one, they either didn't get it or it didn't help anything. The costs of running the farm (seed and fertilizer, IIRC) kept going up and my mother's small teacher's salary (i think it was in the low $30s at the time) didn't cover the difference so the farm was shutdown. The 1980s was the beginning of bad times for small farmers in Pennsylvania. I remember many farms going up on the auction block back then.

[Gwizz]

I remember that farming problem.  If income was down, the tax break would not amount to much.

If I remember correctly only the very big farms benefited and bought up many of the small farms.

My Grandfather had already down sized his small farm and switched to truck farming and egg production. 

No longer did he fill the barn with hay.  In earlier years I remember he spaced the bales to reduce the heat as the hay cured.  I would climb through that stack to a warm and dark center area that he left in the middle of the stack for me to play in. 

This isn't a democratic failure

It was true that the bankers wanted de-regulation.

But, very few republicans joined the democrats on that vote.  Clinton signed the de-regulation into law.

That de-regulation vote should never have happened.  The people were not well served.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on where to place the blame. 

[Gwizz]

The Congress in Washington State end this session with spending that again added to our debt.

We were already deeper in debt per capita then California citizens.

Their solution add more taxes.  Thanks, Liberals.  >:(

[Gwizz]

Talking about taxes:

Obama during his first 100 days Increased our national debt 3 times greater than Bush did in 8 years.

Of course this is mostly Obama's bailout money passed and given to him by congress. 

But, only a small part of this new debt has been spent or has even left the control of Obama's team.

I'm guessing that Obama wants to reserve much of the money for his pet projects; namely Socialism projects.

I heard that China has now greatly restricted the loaning of money to the US government. 

So there may be a delay in Obama's ability to increase the debt even further. 

One Financial group Freddie Max wants more even more stimulus money.  This is the group that was put together by mostly the liberal members of congress.  This group got banks to make many bad loans with the promise that Freddie Max would buy any loans that went bad.  A lot of loans went bad. The Liberals that ran Freddie Max made millions of dollars by manipulating, bundling and re-selling these bad loans world wide.  It was a cash cow for these Liberals. 

If Freddie Max gets the extra money they want, together with the money they have already received, will equal

about 17 thousand dollars per each US citizen of all ages.

Of course the Citizens will have to pay more taxes to pay off this debt plus interest and what they already pay in taxes.

Since business also pays taxes, business will add this cost in taxes to their products. 

So the citizens will pay nearly the whole amount.

Of course nice smiling people run our government. 

They are very happy with the win fall we gave them with our votes.

   

[Gwizz]

Obama has met behind closed doors with House Democrats to pressure them to pass the Carbon Tax.  He wants this all done by the end of next week...and Team Obama is turning up the heat on key Democrats in the House to pressure quick passage of the Carbon Tax.  Obama, Waxman, Pelosi and the gang fear that any delays could kill their precious plan to "save the planet" and reduce their power to tax and control the air! That's because even some Democrats are now getting nervous about imposing such a large tax at a time when the economy is struggling. Reports indicate this new tax could cost the average American over $3,000 every year and result in 7 million lost jobs!

[thomasjordan]

Gwizz:

Say it isn't so.  Mr. Hope and Change promised he would not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 per year.

Of course, his first act was to sign S-CHIP, paid for by a $0.65 per pack tax on cigarettes.  At one pack a day, that is a $237.25 tax increase.  All studies show that the poor and less educated are more likely to smoke. Even Mr. Hope and Change smokes, but I suppose he can afford the tax increase, since he makes more than $250,000 per year.

[Gwizz]

The carbon tax bill now in the Senate, if passed as it is, will cost every taxpayer an estimated $3,100 extra dollars each year.

New Revelation:

Obama has stated that the government can't spend any more money without hurting the economy.  Wow, what a change of direction.  He has already spent a record amount so far, but this was only a small part of the government's 11 Trillion debt that his liberal congress has allocated.

Now, what does he mean, the government should spend no more than it has already spent of that 11 Trillion dollars allocation;

Or, As I believe since he never says what he really means,  The Government should not allocate any more money over the presently Allocated record 11 Trillion dollars budget debt.  What will our taxes have to be to pay off this huge national debt?  Maybe the government will go into the car business, etc, etc, etc.  Then the cost can just be added to whatever we want to buy.

With what is left of that 11 Trillion dollars, Obama has enough money for all his Socialistic projects, even his own private army. He said he wants it to be equal in power to the US army.

Scary times, isn't it.

[Gwizz]

I guess for the short term we should feel lucky that we live in the USA.

I heard that in the UK when all the taxes they pay are added up, on average

the people that support the British Government pay 61% of what they earn in taxes, directly and indirectly. 

In the US we pay on average for all taxes, pasted along taxes, government fees, etc., somewhere between 40% and 50% of our wages to support our Government.  I don't know the latest exact figure.   Of course this will now change with our huge new debt.  We may well pass the British in percentage of taxes we pay, as the interest comes due on our 11 Trillion dollar debt.

I think of how much liberty we have in the US and how the framers of the constitution built safeguards into it to limit government.  These safeguards protect the people from abuses by our Government.  But, it seems to have failed to protect us from abuses by our courts that are now under the control of Government. 

Interesting times ahead.  At least I hope people take more of an interest, to at least understand how much they are losing.

[Hawk]

It seems the people have spoken as far as where their interest lies in this country.

They knowingly and willfully elected a Socialist to the highest office in the country, knowing full well his intention was to turn this once great country into a slobbering, quivering mass of Socialism.  >:(

[Gwizz]

1.  Does Obama ever speak the truth?  The answer is yes.

In answer to a C-span reporter's question of: (Paraphrased)

Mr. President with the 1,7 trillion debt and with the National debt at about 11 trillion dollars when do you think the government will run out of money.

Obama's Answer: (paraphrased)  We are out of money now -- (TRUE) -- and we still have to spend more money for the changes in our National Medic-care system, among other things.

2.  It was stated by Obama that there would be no additional taxes for the little guy. 

      Instead the big guys and business will be taxed at a higher rate.  To put this another way.

      Business always passes its' cost along to the consumer.  Most of the bigs guy are business people.

      This means higher prices for the little guy, with reduced earnings of dollars that will no longer buy as much.

3.  The nations bond rating is expected to be down graded on Tuesday. 

      This will make it harder for the Government to go deeper into debt and most likely hurt the stock market. 

      The only thing left for the government to do is print more money which it has been doing, full speed ahead for

      some time.  It shouldn't take too long now for the value of the dollar to start a steep decline, buying less goods

      while at the same time seeing an increased in the prices for these goods, foods, service, etc.

Seems to me, everyone will lose in this race toward Socialism.  Some are now calling it Fascism. 

[JSS]

Gwizz, following is a listing of the 14 warning signs of fascism.

Which of those are new since Obama took over?

1) Powerful and continuing nationalism

Fascist regimes tend to make use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere as are patriotic symbols on clothing, public displays, and cars.

2) Disdain for the recognition of human rights

Because of the fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights and civil liberties can be ignored in certain cases because of

[Hawk]

None of the 14 items are new to any government. They've all been used in some form or another since the birth of man, but Obama is using, or attempting to use the following:

1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, & 14.

Bush used the following:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 13, & 14.

Of course Bush turned out to be a wolf in sheep's clothing.  ;)

[Gwizz]

I heard that 31% of the money that the government is now spending is borrowed money.  New debt.

Saturday, Obama said the government is broke and he needs more money to give everyone free health care.  But will it really be free?

 

He has a team working on a new tax for the US.  It will be a national sales tax, otherwise called an Added Value tax.  Contrary to what Obama said about not taxing the poor, it will hit everyone with higher taxes through higher prices. 

I call it an assembly line tax, where tax is divided and parts of it are inserted along the assembly line of producing something. 

The talk is, they will need a tax of between 12% and 15%

Here is how it works, using RT3 as a basic Example:

A dollars worth of coal (+taxes) and a dollars worth of Iron(+taxes) plus production costs makes 4 dollars (+taxes) worth of steel.

A manufacture buys the steel to produce a product and wholesales it for $8 dollars(+taxes).

A retailer retails the product to you for say 16 dollars(+taxes) 

Now at dollar values you have paid an added value tax on $30 dollars not the 16 dollars you spent. 

The taxes were passed on to you in increased prices.  Also, you have paid taxes on other taxes paid along the assembly line.

The $16 dollar price you paid had increased from about an 8 dollar price by almost 50% because of the way you were taxed.

The government can almost double its' income by over taxing you with a old taxing method used over seas.

I thank you, Obama if your plan is passed,  The government will have more poor people to support.

It is like a margin call.  you sell stock to pay off the margin call, the stock price devalues and you go deeper in debt.  You end up losing all of your stock.  In the government's case, it creates more poor people then it needs more money tax money to support them, which again create more poor people.  No one will win.

Socialize just doesn't work in a free society.

 

                             

[Hawk]

Actually it's not Socialism Obama is working towards. It's more like Fascism.

I got this in an email the other day.

The One

Author Unknown

And it came to pass in the Age of Insanity that the people of the land called America, having lost their morals, their work initiative, and their will to defend their liberties, chose as their Supreme Leader that person known as "The One".

He emerged from the vapors with a message that had no meaning; but He hypnotized the people telling them, "I am sent to save you. My lack of experience, my questionable ethics, my monstrous ego, and my association with evildoers are of no consequence, for I shall save you with Hope and Change. Go, therefore, and proclaim throughout the land that he who preceded me is evil, that he has defiled the nation, and that all he has built must be destroyed." And the people rejoiced, for even though they knew not what "The One" would do, he had promised that he would bring change, and they proclaimed "Yes We Can".

And "The One" said, "We live in the greatest country in the world. Help me change everything about it!" And the people said, "Hallelujah!! Change is good!"

Then He said, "We are going to tax the rich fat-cats,"---- And the people said "Sock it to them" and "Redistribute their wealth." And then He said, "Redistribution of wealth is good for everybody". And the people said, "Show us the money!"

And Joe the plumber asked, "Are you kidding me? You're going to steal my money and give it to the deadbeats?" And "The One" ridiculed and taunted him, and Joe's personal records were hacked, publicized, and ridiculed, though no crime could be found. One lone reporter asked, "That shouldn't be, isn't that Marxist policy?" And she was banished from the kingdom!

Then a citizen asked, "With no foreign relations experience and having zero military experience or knowledge, how will you deal with radical terrorists?" And "The One" said, "Simple. I shall sit with them and talk kindly to them and show them how nice we really are; and they will forget that they ever wanted to kill us all!" And the people said, "Hallelujah!! We are safe at last, and we can beat our weapons into free cars for the people!"

Then "The One" said; "I shall give 95% of you lower taxes." And one, lone voice said, "But 40% of us don't pay ANY taxes." So "The One" said, "Then I shall give you some of the taxes the fat-cats pay!" And the people said, "Hallelujah!! Show us the money!"

Then "The One" said, "I shall tax your Capital Gains when you sell your homes!" And the people yawned and the already slumping housing market fully collapsed.

And He said, "I shall mandate employer-funded health care for EVERY worker and raise the minimum wage, and lower the white collar wage. And I shall also give every person unlimited health care and medicine and even transportation to the free clinics." And the people said, "Give me some of that!"

Then he said, "I shall penalize employers who ship jobs overseas." And the people said, "Where's my rebate check?"

Then "The One" said, "I shall bankrupt the coal industry, and perhaps even the oil industry (Cap & Trade/Carbon Tax) and though electricity rates will skyrocket, we shall soon build wind farms and solar power stations and drive green cars that I shall mandate in Detroit!" And the people said, "Coal is dirty, coal is evil, no more coal! But we don't care for that part about higher electric rates." So "The One" said, "Not to worry. If your rebate ($10/week) isn't enough to cover your extra expenses ($3,000/year), we shall bail you out. Just sign up with ACORN and your troubles are over! Only the fat cats will have to pay."

Then He said, "Illegal immigrants feel scorned and slighted. Let's grant them amnesty, Social Security, free education, free lunches, free medical care, bi-lingual signs and guaranteed housing." And the people said, "Hallelujah!!" And they made him King!

And so it came to pass that employers, facing spiraling costs and ever-higher taxes, raised their prices and laid off workers; though they sold much less of their products. Others simply gave up and went out of business, and the economy sank like unto a rock dropped from a cliff. The banking industry was destroyed.

Manufacturing slowed to a crawl. And more of the people were without a means of support.

So "The One" again blamed the prior administration, extended unemployment benefits to a year, bailed out his favorite banks, and then took over the banks and auto industries. "The One" said, "I am the "The One" - The Messiah - and I'm here to save you! We shall just print more money so the government will have enough! Surely one trillion dollars will make everyone happy." And immediately the Fed complied and the money presses roared.

And China reconsidered their one trillion dollars of loans to the US, and threatened to call in their debts. Other foreign trading partners said unto "The One", "Wait a minute. Your dollar is not worth a pile of camel dung! You will have to pay more for everything as your dollar becomes worth less."

And the people said, "Wait a minute. That is unfair!!" And the world said, "Neither are these other idiotic programs you have embraced. Lo, you have become a Socialist state and a second-rate power. What factories are not owned by your government are owned by us. Now you shall play by our rules!"

And "The One" said, "Americans are arrogant, divisive, and derisive! We will listen." And the people cried out, "Alas, alas!! What have we done?" But yea verily, it was too late. The people eventually set upon "The One" and spat upon him and stoned him, and his name was dung.

But the once mighty nation was no more; and the once proud people were without sustenance or shelter or hope. And the Change that "The One" had given them was as like unto a poison that had destroyed them from within, and like a whirlwind that consumed all that they had built.

And the people beat their chests in despair and cried out in anguish, "Give us back our nation and our pride and our hope!!" But it was too late, and the once glorious "Home of the Brave and Land of the Free" was no more.

[Gwizz]

Today the Cap and trade bill will be voted upon.  We called our on the fence congressman earlier this morning asking him not to vote for this 1200 page, full of pork bill.

If it passes, the heavy taxing in our country will have begun.

This will increase taxes on everybody, rich and poor alike since everyone uses energy in one form or another.

Only the very rich can afford these higher taxes, since this is where they will make their big dollars.

The bill will Roughly double our energy costs in an effort to push these costs higher to what alternative energy now costs.

Alternative energy presently does not compete with our normal forms of energy.

#2   Global Warming:

Australia, japan, etc. have discovered that the increase in CO2 over the last 10 years has not created more Global Warming.

Their politicians are now saying man does not cause Global Warming.  It is a naturally occurring phenomena. 

We now hear from the elites, that Global Warming is really more about a Climate Change problem.  The words Global Warming has lost its' esteem.  The elites needed another name to help generate the millions they seek from the average people.

Hawk stated this a few posts back.

#3  Frog Legs

Remember a while back, how frogs were being found with deformed legs caused by chemicals and Global warming.

Well the real answer is different.  Dragon fly larvae were the cause.  They chew on the legs when the legs are first starting to develop on the tadpoles.   

[Gwizz]

The Cap and Trade Global Warming Bill has passed  the house.  It now goes to the Senate for a vote.

300 pages was added to the bill that same morning and the Liberals violated the constitution by suspending the rules to reduce debate and have a quick vote.  They didn't want the new pages read or understood before the house voted on it.

We are being lead down the proverbial garden path and we are not going to like what we find at the end.

Evidence is continually mounting that the Global Warming hype is a farce. Global Warming is a natural phenomenon that has been taking place for a 1000 years.  Mans part is not a drop in the bucket of the causes.

This new bill will mostly tax and regulate energy companies, greatly increasing their costs.  Companies alway pass their costs on to the next partner of the chain, companies and individuals continuing to create higher and  higher prices.  Much higher Natural gas, Gasoline and Electric costs, etc. will the result

It is estimated that over 2 million jobs will be lost as companies try to reduce costs by sending production off shore.

Higher taxes will result to pay on a record high National debt.

The future looks very expensive.

[Hawk]

The future looks very expensive.

I don't think expensive is quite the word to use here. I would say bleak is more appropriate as more large corporations move their operations overseas to countries that don't adopt this cap and trade crap, like China and India.

Small businesses will start dropping like flies as they won't be able to afford the additional taxes and costs.

Al Gore stands to make billions off of this bill passing. Nancy Pelosi stands to make millions, as will other politicians and money mongers.

This whole bill has nothing to do with the environment. It has everything to do with the fat cats getting fatter, as well as a lot more control over our lives.

Expect to see the price of beef and pork to skyrocket, as well as vegetables, milk, etc. The cost of electricity will most likely increase by about 90% over the next 5 years. Same with gas and water.

The housing market will be decimated. The list goes on and on.

[Gwizz]

I heard on the local News today that a tax bill is being prepared that will tax 50% of any inheritance.  I didn't catch if it was a state tax or a Federal tax.  Although the commentator was talking about what the feds were doing just before this comment.

I paid taxes on what I earned and I should be able to will it to anyone I wish without them paying taxes on the money again since it is a gift and not earnings.

It kind of like Christmas.  You pay taxes when you buy a gift (or earn something) and then the person receiving the gift has to pay taxes again.

[thomasjordan]

Gwizz:

There already is a "death tax," or "estate tax," in the U.S.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

As noted in the above referenced article, some of its provisions were moderated by the so-called "Bush Tax Cuts."  Those cuts expire in 2011, so if you are planning on dieing anytime soon, do it during 2010, as that will be the cheapest year.

What you probably heard was broadcasters talking about the expiration of the tax cuts.

[Gwizz]

You are correct.  It is just so easy to get irritated with what is happening with our Government.