What Obama voted for in Congress. Do you agree?

[Gwizz]

Gleamed from the INTERNET: Quote:

"Obama               By Bill Brown of the Billy Graham Team

           Bill Brown, is a highly respected retired member of the Billy Graham team so, I take his assessment of Obama very seriously and for that reason accept his challenge to pass this on.   I share his concern about the 'rock star' image Obama has and watch with growing concern at the celebrity status the media has foisted upon him. Here is hope this email informs you in a wise way.   BW

           ________________________________

        The Obama Tidal Wave

           We are witnessing a political phenomenon with Barack Obama of rare magnitude.

           His speeches have inspired millions and yet most of his followers have no idea of what he stands for except

           platitudes of 'Change' or that he says he will be a 'Uniter'.

           The power of speech from a charismatic person truly can be a powerful thing.   

           Certainly Billy Graham had charisma.   Both his manner of speech and particularly the content changed millions.

           On the extreme other hand, the charisma of Adolph Hitler, too, inspired millions and the results were catastrophic.

           Barack Obama certainly is no Hitler or a Billy Graham, but for many Americans riding on the Obama Tidal Wave, it is

           just like a surfer who might be ecstatic and euphoric while riding a tidal wave, but the reality of the ride is

           what happens when it hits shore.

           Just Some of What Defines Barack Obama:

           

[JSS]

Gwizz. I fail to understand this. Almost all the above a very positive attributes especially if it is a politician.

[Gwizz]

I'm trying to understand what Obama stands for; But not having much luck.

He is not talking like he voted.

[thomasjordan]

I guess those are positive attitudes in politicians if you support the person in the US Senate with the most liberal voting record.

And Gwizz, he is still saying all of that.

[maddog]

Is there a good reason for this to be on an RT2 board? It's politics. Let's delete it so there won't be any flame wars.

--Ray.

[Gwizz]

This blog has greatly increased traffic at The Terminal.  We were getting close to being dead in the water.

Even Railroad related posts are now picking up a bit.  A comment that hawk made, got me to thinking that maybe I needed to light a fire under The Terminal if it is to survive.   

I guess it is possible for a flame war to start.  I would like to believe people here are more mature then that.

I'm really interested in how people perceive the difference between a radical democrat and a moderate democrat who calls himself a Republican. I guess, I'm just tired of having to vote for the lesser of evils.

 

[JSS]

Gwizz, since I have no vote,  have no offspring to be concerned about their future and truly do not care which of both candidates wins, I believe that I have a somewhat more "neutral" or objective view of your dilemma.

Your whole basic concept of Democrat and Republican and the attached label of liberal and conservative is another thing that I do not understand. Do you want to vote for a representative of a party or would you like to vote for someone that represents the view of the voter. So who cares if Democrat, Republican, Liberal or Conservative when the question should be what candidate represents my view best. (Them changing their minds later is another story)

Anyhow, both candidates have got issues with what they are saying . So, if at the same time a political statement comes from a religious nut of the Billy Graham Team I am really suspicious.

[Hawk]

Did anyone watch the Saddleback forum on TV?

Rick Warren got Obama and McCain on the platform and asked them both a series of questions.

I had an equal agreement/disagreement with both candidates on their answers and find it quite difficult to really believe either one.

I guess I'm just sitting on a fence on this election.

[Gwizz]

Hawk, I listened to some of that debate, repeated on the radio; If I can call it a debate the way it was organized to get Obama to attend.  Knowing his weakness, Obama normally doesn't debate.  Obama's inabilitly to talk without a TelePrompTer is one of the things that bothers me.

If he becomes president, I wonder who will be controlling the TelePrompTer.

Will it be his wife who seems to hate America (he stated when he is president she will be his main supportor) or will it be the same elite group the gives support to both candidates.

I suspect the latter.  Since the elitist group supports both men, they will win no matter who is elected and the common people will take it in the neck.

--------------------------------------------------

JSS,  I've never been a supporter of the late Billy Graham.  I think he is dead, isn't he?  but, the list that was presented by one of his supporters was a good and fairly complete representation of how Obama had voted during his 180 days as a Senator.  I left all of this letter intact although I was tempted to only include the list proper, except then it might look like it was my list and that would not be right.

In my State of Washington we passed a bill removing separate ballets for Democrats and Republicans in the primary election.  Both parties objected to this change; but I think it serves the common people better. (As you stated) I have in the past always voted for the person and not the party.  The party system tries to control people and IMHO does not represent the common people very well.

So I think we are close to having the same general belief system.       

[JSS]

Gwizz, just found this

[djf01]

This blog has greatly increased traffic at The Terminal.  We were getting close to being dead in the water.

Even Railroad related posts are now picking up a bit.  A comment that hawk made, got me to thinking that maybe I needed to light a fire under The Terminal if it is to survive. 

I appreciate what you are trying to do and why, but I'm with the mad dog on this one.

I'm really interested in how people perceive the difference between a radical democrat and a moderate democrat who calls himself a Republican. I guess, I'm just tired of having to vote for the lesser of evils.

[flamewar=on]

I think what you have made very clear is that your views on most subjects are way to the right of most people in the US, much less the rest of the world.  Obama is not a radical Democrat by any definition other than one cooked up by a Republican campaign official.  And McCain is no more a Democrat than Gwizz.

[/flamewar]

But my view is this site should be for RRT fans, not a forum for hard core Republican RRT fans to share their political fantasies with.  Sure, there might be more traffic, but you could have done the same thing posting porn. 

If nothing else, just remember that there is a good chance Obama will be the next US president, and even if he didn't vote for the Patriot act, he will have it at his disposal.

[Gwizz]

I don't have much faith in the propaganda of either major party.

IMHO Neither party is totally honest.  I try to vote for the best man from either party.

djf01, I appreciate your views. Reading both sides of an issue is how we learn.  But I think you are wrong

As a side note, I don't flame and anyone that does will be removed from the forum.

We can be respectful, civil and courteous and still disagree with one another.

If a person does not like this thread, I would recommend they not read it.

Voting records place a candidate on a scale with others who voted.

Obama's vote was more radical (further left) then anyone else's in the Senate.

McCain's vote was more mainstream Democratic then mainstream Republican. 

Now the scale is skewed since the Senate has more Democrats than Republicans.

So, it is possible that compromise votes did occur for McCain causing him to be placed across the aisle.

I'm not sure this is true; but, it is a possibility.  No one can know McCain's mind.

Obama chose to vote in a way that placed him where he is on the voting scale.

[djf01]

If a person does not like this thread, I would recommend they not read it ...

Which is precisely the point I was trying to make.

Regardless of how even handed Gwizz might think he is being, to many his views are extreme to the point of being offensive.  And if his views aren't offensive, his endless expression of them certainly is.

I have been this close to stopping checking in at the Terminal altogether, but for a few recent game related posts.

If this keeps up, I'm not going to be the only one driven away from this site, and possibly even the RRT games.

So *please* Jerry, if you're not going to get a life, at least bring your posts back to somehwere near the theme of this site!

[Hawk]

It's a sad thing that you find someone else's opinions offensive. Sounds rather liberal to me.

If someone's opinion about matters other than RRT drive you away from the game itself, then so be it.

[thomasjordan]

We have two Democrats running for President this year.  A far to the left liberal Democrat, and a moderate Democrat.  There isn't a Republican, or conservate, or anyone who has actually read the Constitution and actually believes it means what it says.

That's all that matters to me.  Which candidate takes their oath of office to defend and protect the Consitution most seriously.  One of the candidates doesn't take it seriously at all, believing it is a living and breathing document that means whatever some judge decides it means on any given day.  The other candidate believes at least a few of its clauses (I'm including the Amendments) might still have some value.  I've been voting for the lessor of two evils since 1968.  Guess I'll be doing that again this year.

And I agree, we should be talking about railroad stuff.  I tried to start a topic about modern day railroading and it went nowhere.

[Hawk]

I do agree with you Thomas. I'm seriously thinking of voting for Bob Barr.

Not the best choice but maybe better than the other two.

[Gwizz]

Thomas,  I have spent some time just thinking about the extra dialog I've added.

In a nut shell:

Jesse, the brains behind this site is busy.  I'm busy.  If The Terminal got hacked, with so few people posting, it might stay gone.  The Terminal was getting a small study stream of visitors.  The Visitor count did make a big jump with the extra dialog.  If the Visitor count stays fairly high, then there is a better chance that The Terminal would be kept alive.

I think I will keep the extra dialog, at least for a while.  Even the politics part, since it is a free speech thing that can be engaged in, in a cordial manner as long as there is a respect for different beliefs or opinions.   

Our most active posters tend to be mostly interested in the more minute details of map building.  Which is good since this creates more ideas and challenging maps.  I've learned a lot from this type map builder. 

I think I made a mistake when I increased the difficulty of my last map.  I don't like playing a difficult map and I believe there are many visitors who like an easier more relaxing game to play.

My next map is in keeping with my old style of map building. But since I am very busy and it is taking some time to complete.

   

[Hawk]

With the recent news of Steve's H&P Railroad getting spammed to death and it's consequent closing http://hawkdawg.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=12418#p12418 , it might be a good idea to contact Jesse and see if he's interested in updating the forum software.

The newest release does address some security issues.

http://www.simplemachines.org/

We don't want to loose another one.

[Gwizz]

That is a good idea.  Thanks again Hawk.

[Gwizz]

I listened to a radio program last night where a man calling himself a Democratic lawyer was interviewed.

This lawyer stated that there is a non-US birth certificate with Obama's name on it.

He believes Obama was not born in the US as Obama claims.

That, according to the law at the time, Obama's mother a US citizen also did not meet the residency requirements necessary to make Obama a citizen.

The lawyer said he has filed for an injunction to release the records and if the records prove to be true, to remove Obama from running for the presidency.  If Obama's isn't qualified to run, that would put Clinton back in the race.

This is sure turning into an interesting election. 

[thomasjordan]

So far as we know, Obama was born in the State of Hawaii to a mother from Kansas (US Citizen) and a legal resident from Kenya.  That makes him a natural born citizen as required by the Constitution.

It is surprising this is coming from the Democrats, though.  They already tried with McCain, and that went nowhere.  He was born in a US Military Hospital in Panama, to two US Citizens.  His father was a distinguished submarine commander during WWII, and later went on to be a 4-Star Admiral during Vietnam.  His grandfather was at least a 3-Star Admiral during WWII.  US law declares that anyone born overseas to parents, one of whom is a US Citizen, is a natural born US Citizen, although they may hold dual citizenship with the country of their birth.  They must make an election when they reach their majority to retain or renounce their US Citizenship.  Three of my four brothers and sisters in law were born overseas to US parents in Military Hospitals.  They all carried dual citizenship until their 18th birthdays, when they formally renounced their German citizenship.

They only way Obama is not a natural born Citizen is if he was born overseas and his mother was not a US Citizen.  Since both her mother and father were US Citizens (her mother is still living, and her father served in Germany during WWII), it is hard to believe that Obama's mother was not a US Citizen.

Good luck, lawyer.  This is a VERY long shot.  Very.

[Hawk]

Well, since Obama was born in 1961 and Hawaii became a state in 1959, that would make him born in a state, and not 'overseas'.

[Gwizz]

Since Obama has refused to show his US birth certificate,

(a Birth certificate can be sealed in many countries when a child is adopted as Obama was) and

since Obama spent the first 3 years of his life in, I believe it was Indonesia, and

there is an Indonesia birth certificate found that has his exact name on it, and

since his mother had renounced her US citizenship and then returned to the US to again apply for citizenship, and

if it is true that there is a waiting time limit on citizenship that the mother was waiting on, then

Obama may not be a US citizen.

This is assuming the lawyer knows what he was talking about.

[thomasjordan]

Gwizz:

Now you are citing information I was not aware of.  If true, then no, he would not be a natural born US citizen, and would not be eligible to be elected president.

Source, please?

[Gwizz]

I heard the lawyer talking on a talk show.

The following is his web site.

http://www.obamacrimes.com/

I was unable to find a print out of his full talk on that show.

I wasn't sure on the country he said Obama was born in.

At his web site the lawyer said Obama was born in Kenya on his web site.

but also holds citizenship in Indonesia.

The mothers loss of US citizenship is complicated. I'm not sure I understand its' timeline correctly.