Request: Need help with Upgrade tree(s) in game.

[stefanhendriks]

I am busy rewriting the upgrade mechanism in D2TM. The upgrade mechanism was based on some vague knowledge I had of the original game. Now I am looking for a more precise upgrade path.

If anyone can help me find out the entire upgrade tree, then I'd be very happy (and it will save me time, which I can spend on other features).

I suggest some sort of format:

House

Techlevel (equals mission number, ie mission 9 = techlevel 9)

Requirements (upgrades, buildings, etc)

Upgrades to ...

Price of upgrade

Time it takes (before upgrade is complete).

Something I already have built in:

House: All

Techlevel: 4 or higher

Requirements: None

Upgrades to: 4 slabs

Price of upgrade : 200 (??, need to verify)

Time it takes : unknown (now I have 50 time units)

House: All

Techlevel: 6 or higher

Requirements: upgraded to 4 slabs, and owning an Outpost

Upgrades to: Rocket Turret

Price of upgrade : 400 (??, need to verify)

Time it takes : unknown (now I have 200 time units)

Any input is appreciated.

[MrFlibble]

Building upgrade cost is always half the price of its construction cost, with the exception of the Const. Yard which has the "cost" of 400 credits (hence each upgrade costs 200 credits), although the player actually pays 900 credits for the MCV to get a Const. Yard. Therefore, upgrades go as follows:

Const. Yard: 2 upgrades, 200 credits (level 4, level 6)

Barracks: 1 upgrade, 150 credits (level 2)

WOR: 1 upgrade, 200 credits (HK level 4; OR level 6)

Light Factory: 1 upgrade, 200 credits (AT, OR level 3)

Heavy Factory: HK, AT 3 upgrades, OR 2 upgrades, 300 credits (AT, HK, level 4, level 5, level 6; OR level 4, level 7*)

High-Tech Factory: 1 upgrade, 250 credits (AT, OR level 7)

*  I suspect it's a bug and it was intended for the Ordos to get Siege Tanks on level 6, as with the other Houses - this is the case in the Sega version, by the way.

No upgrades except the Rocket Turret upgrade need any additional prerequisites, they are only limited by tech levels.

Unfortunately, I have no idea about the time it takes to upgrade a structure. I suppose it could be, as with the cost, that upgrading takes half the build time of the structure, but I'm not sure. I think the guys from the OpenDUNE project might know the answer.

[stefanhendriks]

Thanks a lot!

Perhaps you can specify a bit further this one:

Heavy Factory: HK, AT 3 upgrades, OR 2 upgrades, 300 credits (AT, HK, level 4, level 5, level 6; OR level 4, level 7*)

Although I have a pretty good guess how it should be:

AT/HK:

upgrade #1 -> MCV

upgrade #2 -> launcher

upgrade #3 -> siege tank

OR:

upgrade #1-> MCV

upgrade #2 -> launcher

[MrFlibble]

Perhaps you can specify a bit further this one:

Although I have a pretty good guess how it should be:

AT/HK:

upgrade #1 -> MCV

upgrade #2 -> launcher

upgrade #3 -> siege tank

Quite correct! :)

OR:

upgrade #1-> MCV

upgrade #2 -> launcher

Nope, the second upgrade gives the Ordos Siege Tanks, they don't have any Launchers at all (only via the Starport). I think you won't make a mistake if you enable this second Ordos upgrade on level 6, as I mentioned above (unless, of course, you wish to stay as close to the game as possible, but it is still my heavy suspicion that the Ordos should have got the Siege Tanks on level 6 already).

[stefanhendriks]

Quite correct! :)

Nope, the second upgrade gives the Ordos Siege Tanks, they don't have any Launchers at all (only via the Starport). I think you won't make a mistake if you enable this second Ordos upgrade on level 6, as I mentioned above (unless, of course, you wish to stay as close to the game as possible, but it is still my heavy suspicion that the Ordos should have got the Siege Tanks on level 6 already).

Well, on the other hand, perhaps it was on purpose. Ordos is the equivalent of a 'hard' game mode (afaik) ;)

I can make either way, no problem from my side. I'll keep it as the original at first. It is a nice touch when you're limited to the starport on that matter.

[MrFlibble]

Well, on the other hand, perhaps it was on purpose. Ordos is the equivalent of a 'hard' game mode (afaik) ;)

Sure, this had occurred to me as well, but on the other hand, in the Sega version the Ordos can build Siege Tanks on mission 6. But then again, there are other differences in that version as well (e.g. you don't need to go through all the upgrades you have already made in previous missions, so for example in mission 6 the Ordos can build MCVs, Quads and Infantry squads without any upgrades needed).

However, there's yet another source of doubt for the Ordos not having Siege Tanks in mission 6 in the PC version, namely, Dune 2 uses a "code exception" to make this modification for House Ordos, and code exceptions like that check the previous mission number to determine what the current mission is, and in this particular case previous mission would obviously be 6. So I think it is possible that the developers could have accidentally or automatically put 6 instead of 5, not realizing that it would actually result in giving the Siege Tanks from mission 7 onwards. This is pure speculation, but still an argument of sorts. In any case, it is certain that the Sega version corrected some bugs present in the PC version (e.g. the looped enemy reinforcements don't work in the PC version, but they do in the Sega version; or in the PC version, the player's structures will slowly decay regardless of whether they were placed on concrete or not, while in the Sega version they only decay if they were placed on rocks or incomplete concrete foundations), so maybe it is a good idea to borrow some features from the Sega version. It's up to you to decide really, as I am in as much doubt regarding this as you could imagine :)

As for upgrade time, I did a little testing, and it seems that all upgrades for all structures take the same amount of time regardless of the cost or the original build time of each structure. So I guess it's a fixed value, although I have no idea if it can be traced. Generally, upgrades are done quite fast, the time is comparable to the build time of a slab.

[stefanhendriks]

It's up to you to decide really, as I am in as much doubt regarding this as you could imagine

I'll think about it ;) Very interesting argument though.

Generally, upgrades are done quite fast, the time is comparable to the build time of a slab.

Ah, thats quite fast actually. Thanks for finding that out. I do know how fast a slab gets built.

We actually forgot other upgrades:

- All houses

- When IX built

- Give special unit. (??)

I was wondering though, do you get the special unit immediately or do you get an extra upgrade option? In DEMO 4 I do the latter, but I recently became to doubt that.

[X3M]

The original Dune 2: Building IX immidiately gives the special unit on all heavy factories. No other upgrades needed. I clearly remember this because i never upgraded my heavy factories in level 7 and further with the atreides. 22 Sonic tanks all the way in the last 3 missions :D. Upgrading was a waist of time and money, i could get siege tanks with starport anyway.

On the other hand, the resources in your version are not limited. And you are planning on making the units different in combat, so mixing is required.

An option perhaps in the starting menu for 1) original and 2) your version? Where 1 is as close to original as possible with limited resources?

[stefanhendriks]

Yeah, perhaps some option will be included later on. I'll give the special unit when IX is built then :)

[stefanhendriks]

Yay, just checked in the latest changes to add all upgrade logic. Thanks for all the help.

[MrFlibble]

Ah, thats quite fast actually. Thanks for finding that out. I do know how fast a slab gets built.

A little more testing shows that upgrade time is approximately 20 ticks (using the original "tick" value for build time). For comparison, concrete slab(s) build time is 16 ticks. I used Nyerguds' editor to change the single slab build time to 20, then started upgrading a factory and building a slab (almost) simultaneously (on "Slowest" speed setting, to have a more clear view of how things progress), and both took (almost) equal time. The percentage display was also the same - it updated every 5%, whereas you will notice that when you normally build a concrete slab (which takes 16 ticks, as mentioned above) the update rate of the percentage will be different, and you'll see, for example, 31%, which s impossible if the update rate is 5%, giving you 30%, then 35%. So I think 20 ticks is your best guess :)

[MrFlibble]

Hehe, it turns out I guessed correctly :) I was browsing through TrueBrain's entries in the OpenDUNE Developer's Blog looking for something else and found this:

Upgrading: upgrading goes in 20 steps, not depending on anything. And upgrading always costs 50% of the building cost.

(From [blog 2009-11-24] GameLoops)

BTW, there's also other info in the Blog you might find useful ;)