Martyrdom: An auto-toxic meme?

[TMA_1]

I just started reading about Memetics, still very ignorant on the concept, but I do find it interesting. Although I do claim to I have an extreme lack of knowledge on the issue, I have heard of some ideas oncerning the topic that I find a bit short sided.

One is the concept of auto-toxicity. The idea that certain memes are self limiting because they herald their own demise. One person said that martyrdom falls into this category. I think this is incorrect. If one follows this train of thought, the said person would generally be implying that martyrdom exists in a vacuum, and that there is no purpose behind the act of being a martyr.

This is silly though. Generally there is some important cause that would make someone sacrifice their life for that said cause. If this is the case, than it isnt self limiting because the entity is sacrificing itself for a variety of reasons. Maybe the reason would be to spread awareness, to reject an established concept, or to embolden others so make a stand. If the martyrdom successfully accomplishes any of these aims, especially if the accomplished aims live on long past the martyr, than what the person did was not toxic to him or herself, but beneficial to the concept the person is trying to uphold.

Being a martyr for something or someone can be either good or bad, depending on what one is martyring themselves for. It also depends on the perception on the individual that is acting as a martyr.

I dont know, just wanted to express this thought. If anybody else out there has heard about memetics, or has anything to say on the concept of martyrdom, please post. I would love to hear responses from you guys. :)

[nemafakei]

Martyrdom doesn't at all kill the meme - just one vessel. And that death often spreads the meme far more effectively than the living person would.

[Caid Ivik]

the strongest meme of all is the one of memetics

[TMA_1]

I know, but they seemed to imply that it was not only desructive to the martyr, but to the meme that the martyr is spreading. Maybe it was just impplying that it was destructive just to the individual, but it didnt sound like that. could be wrong though.

[Egeides]

My WAG (wild-ass-guess ;)): "False" (for oneself) and true martyrdom might have opposite effect there in some way.

Although most Christians preferred to be discreet and preferred not getting killed, some were even seen as "pleading"/"running" for martyrdom. "False" martyrs with the stance "killing myself is good" were seriously criticized by Christian authorities. Suicide was considered in the light of "murdering oneself".

Anecdote:

There was a Roman administrator who got a special case in front of him and he found it quite annoying. He condemned a guy, and the other seemed pretty happy about it. The administrator wondered what he was going to do with them if they were to encroach on the law further each time he applied it.

[Darth Kwisatz]

If a meme dies in a forest and no one notices, did he really die? Ditto in a crowd? Is a suicidal manic depressive any different, except in basis of motive? Is a meme just an intellectual manic depressive?

For whom is martyrdom most tragic? The martyr, the sympathetic witness, the indifferent witness, the non-witness or the glad witness? If the martyr is aggressive and takes others, are they also unwitting martyrs to an opposite purpose or just victims?

Is martyrdom on the basis of other reward true or false?