Freedom of Religion?

[Dude_Doc]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5286835

Well, since there have been much discussion about the Mohammad caricatures and all, now with Scientologists - what do you think? Should we have the freedom to say whatever we want about any religion? I am aware that it was a bad choice by the Danish newspaper to post the caricatures during these times, but say 9/11 never happened? Would it be more acceptable?

Can, for example, Arabs become the new "group" of oppressed people, just like the Jews were in the 1930's?

[Edric O]

Yes, we should have the freedom to say whatever we want about any religion.

And the Church of Scientology should be outlawed and forcibly disbanded.

[Kiyouta]

I think you'll find the Jews were always oppressed. ;)

I think the West is suffering from past oppressions to Arab nations, rather than current oppressions. I don't feel they are currently an oppressed people.

[Anathema]

And the Church of Scientology should be outlawed and forcibly disbanded.

While I have no good words for Scientology, disbanding them!? That's treading on a slippery slope, and you'll make the term "freedom of religion" entirely meaningless.

Those muslim rioters, the Saudian government, Tom Cruise and his shenanigan "church" can suck it.

[Edric O]

While I have no good words for Scientology, disbanding them!? That's treading on a slippery slope, and you'll make the term "freedom of religion" entirely meaningless.

In my view, freedom of religion does not extend to any religious organization that charges money for its services and/or keeps its core doctrine secret from the vast majority of its followers. If it were up to me, I would give Scientology a choice between providing free services and dropping its copyrights, or being disbanded.

It is not treading on a slippery slope, because legislation requiring religious organizations to provide free services and not hold copyright over religious texts will not affect anyone other than Scientology.

[nemafakei]

Well, I think we needn't be so vindictive as to directly outlaw or forcibly disband it. Just as personal beliefs are not an excuse to break the law, all you need state, Edric, is that any published information is public domain and cannot be charged. I'm guessing it will thereafter fall apart.

[nampigai]

In my view, freedom of religion does not extend to any religious organization that charges money for its services and/or keeps its core doctrine secret from the vast majority of its followers. If it were up to me, I would give Scientology a choice between providing free services and dropping its copyrights, or being disbanded.

It is not treading on a slippery slope, because legislation requiring religious organizations to provide free services and not hold copyright over religious texts will not affect anyone other than Scientology.

funny EdricO to me this sounds a little like christianity in the dark ages?

I think there should be absolute freedom of religion - as long as religion and state is two seperate things. Religion shouldn't set the political agenda.

[Edric O]

funny EdricO to me this sounds a little like christianity in the dark ages?

I'm no fan of dark age Christianity, but there really is no similarity between it and Scientology. There was no copyright, of course, and although the Catholic Church did start selling absolution of sins at one point (in the late Middle Ages), it caused the large public outcry known as the Reformation.

I think there should be absolute freedom of religion - as long as religion and state is two seperate things. Religion shouldn't set the political agenda.

Religion, by definition, holds sway over public opinion. In a democracy, public opinion holds sway over government. Therefore separation of church and state is only partial at best. The only reason why religion doesn't set the political agenda in Europe is because most people aren't very religious.

[Anathema]

That, and they kept their doctrines secret, too. That's why the Bible wasn't translated from Latin until Luther, and IIRC most priests didn't even get to read the Bible.

Do Jewish synagogues still ask for tithes?

Making legislation with the intent of singling out a religion...that's definitely not done. The best thing we can do is make sure people know what they walk into, but still keep their freedom to do so. I don't think any reasonable person would join scientology if he knew its history and that of Ron Hubbard. Still there's always some  amount of people who'll join obscure cults, even if its illegal. I even think that outlawing them might backfire, some followers who might otherwise start realise in the future what a scam scientology is and leave it, would persevere in their faith because it now has a facade of martyrdom.

[Edric O]

That, and they kept their doctrines secret, too. That's why the Bible wasn't translated from Latin until Luther, and IIRC most priests didn't even get to read the Bible.

Good point. I forgot about that.

Making legislation with the intent of singling out a religion...that's definitely not done.

That is why I proposed that the legislation should refer to certain kinds of practices, regardless of the religion involved. If any religion other than Scientology used the same practices, it should most definitely be given the same treatment. A scam by any other name is still a scam (and yes, that includes much of the Medieval Church - the things it did should not be allowed to happen again).

I don't think any reasonable person would join scientology if he knew its history and that of Ron Hubbard.

True, but educating the entire population about the history of Scientology is considerably more difficult than enforcing the legislation I proposed.

Still there's always some amount of people who'll join obscure cults, even if its illegal. I even think that outlawing them might backfire, some followers who might otherwise start realise in the future what a scam scientology is and leave it, would persevere in their faith because it now has a facade of martyrdom.

Oh no, I would never advocate anything so extreme that it would make martyrs out of them. I'm not saying their leaders should be put in jail or anything. If they refuse to stop charging money for religious services and keeping their doctrine secret, the government should declare their copyrights null and void and publish their most sacred texts en masse for all to read. Flooding the market with OT III and the Xenu story should be enough to expose Scientology to public ridicule. And if they still refuse to cooperate, the government might also consider confiscating Church property. But nothing beyond that.

I really think just revoking their copyrights and publishing their OT levels would be enough. Remember, official Scientology doctrine says you will die if you read OT III without going through all their other stuff first.