ordos tank units and de-shielded statistics

[eid]

i've been looking at the stats sheet by gunwounds

and noticed a possible update to the ordos units...

the laser vs laser/deviator/apc /sardurkar elite could be added to,

as a few players here migh have noticed i've been mucking around with the shields on ordos tanks,mainly de shielding them with a few dust,with some rather nice results

ie a deviator can be used vs a small group of lasers 4-5 or so ,the unit that gets deviated is then the closest target and all other units in range(the lasers) fire at it and the deviator has a slight chance to get away while they loose 2 lasers(or more if they fire and hit simultaneoesly-rare)

this should probably be posted in the strategy forum, but its mainly aimed at the aforementioned stats list

anyway gunwounds,if you've got any time ill help test if you care to add to it...the other problem i see is with self healing will alter the stats for all ordos tanks, :edit: same with hark at level 2 and above

[pearlmen]

dont atr let grow mass mino and huge imperial sardauker elites first eid. :)

ordos no tomorrow in late game huge vs huge army. but i rarly seen someone tried new tatics.

you have the new pioneer spirit of emp these day. I like to you try use sonictank and saboteur.

[eid]

thanks man,

just trying to expand the  standard tactics most use and introduce something a little different,even i've seen a few good turtle games using early turrets and gunships,very nice

as you've seen, i like my sonics ,they are underrated and underused ,like so many other 'useless' unts in the game

apcs lasers ctanks mtanks flametanks airmines sabotuers etc

im hopeing to revive them a bit,giving the game a bit more variety ,add to that new strategies

seeing all the units used in unusual ways etc can spice things up..at least for me,even if it is difficult to do

only adds more challenge and reward when it all comes together hf

[atrd3m0n]

i've been looking at the stats sheet by gunwounds

and noticed a possible update to the ordos units...

the laser vs laser/deviator/apc /sardurkar elite could be added to,

as a few players here migh have noticed i've been mucking around with the shields on ordos tanks,mainly de shielding them with a few dust,with some rather nice results

ie a deviator can be used vs a small group of lasers 4-5 or so ,the unit that gets deviated is then the closest target and all other units in range(the lasers) fire at it and the deviator has a slight chance to get away while they loose 2 lasers(or more if they fire and hit simultaneoesly-rare)

this should probably be posted in the strategy forum, but its mainly aimed at the aforementioned stats list

anyway gunwounds,if you've got any time ill help test if you care to add to it...the other problem i see is with self healing will alter the stats for all ordos tanks, :edit: same with hark at level 2 and above

dont forget lasers outrange devis, the chance u will deviate a lasertank is almost nihil.

[eid]

erm yea,well the idea would be to deshield your own deviator to be able to take a few hits and get close :]

like i said it might not be any use of laser groups of 5 and up-depending on the actual damage:health

then its upto some good mm, or using the idle ai's auto closest targeting

anyway what i want to know is if gunwounds being the creator of that stat sheet, would wanto add a few numbers to it

in the event of ordos vs ordos taking out 2 lasers with a devi could be useful -but it could go furthur than that i think

or knowing at least the static amount of hits the apc,laser,deviator can take without the shield up

if gun isnt interested in an update, maybe a few of us could make a new one,and add a bit more detail

in any case,if anyone here has some spare time and is interested in helping play test these sort of things, let me know

i dont wanna hafta ask the ai again :P

[GUNWOUNDS]

If you collect the data i will add it to my chart.  But i dont think enough people do it to warrant me personally collecting the data for every unit vs an unshielded deviator.

[eid]

ok ive been testing a few things on this topic, but i've run into a few problems as i expected

the problem in question is self healing..:]  then range to target (time space)

for example a dust scout vs a laser..the dust scout wont kill the laser on its own before the lasers sheild is reactivated..but 2 dust will destroy the laser in 6 hits(3 shots each simultaneously)

then theres the range:timespace to target problem in dealing with single unit vs single unit  an example of this is a harkonnen aatrooper..

at max range a single aa trooper cannot destroy a laser in time before the lasers shield is reactivated(it can take upto 6-7  hits at max range)at close range this changes

however because of the time it takes for the rocket to hit its target(giving less time to recharge the shield and health)

so with this in mind,Gunwounds seeing as its your stat sheet in question to be altered,

the questions on my mind at the moment is, how technical do you want these stats to be?

or would you rather keep it simple(no range,time deviation) if its kept simple it will effect the stats more than marginally, however if its too technical, then some people might not be able to keep all this in mind,let alone understand it..although it will be a lot more accurate.

im still working on the rest of the units,but i have other concerns over certain units, like flame tanks/inf,chem and other gradually varying damaging units..

ill ask one more question before i keep going though...in the event a single unit cannot destroy a shielded unit on its own before shield reactivation(aka dust atrooper/kobra/ink/list goes on)...should i keep its stats  in a unit vs unit fashion? or should i assist it where needed    ie: use 2  units of same type to keep the ordos unit from healing?

[GUNWOUNDS]

to be honest i think this data is going to the realm of trivia.  Sort of like how many sniper shots does it take to kill a mino?  Too many variables and too many factors coupled with teh fact that most people wont use deshielded tactics makes me think you shouldnt spend too much time on it.  I will however, agree that de-shielding a deviator in order to get closer to a mino surrounded by elites would be cool.. however anything beyond that application seems trivial and unrealistic in terms of real fast paced combat.

So in summary what i am saying is that deviator deshielded stats might be cool but anything else just seems silly.

[eid]

trivial perhaps..but in terms of trying your best to keep your units alive is the whole point of this

say for example( and ive used this in real time) you have about 10 dust and 3 lasers..now if ur laser/apc gets hit to the point of performance degradation,trying to run a non sheilded laser from a group of chasing buzzsaws wont work

because the saws are faster at that stage,however knowing that it takes 3/6 hits from there,u can use dust to 'block'

that is get the dust in front of the buzz and allow ur laser to survive,even if just barely it wil heal to full health in a short time,not many people make a lot of lasers,as they not very expendable, id rather loose 1 or 2 dust to see my laser to get out and do more damage and  possibly rank up a level. but most just try to run away..and the lasers lag behind and die most of the time,if the player knew how many hits it can take, and could be saved,wouldnt you at least try it?

but i agree the range:time and healing (both health and shield seperate) is  perhaps trivial to pursue too far,

however most chasing units tend to get ahead of the following units(in terms of formation) thats where dispite its triviality..can still be put to use, but if in consideration of the fact it is your stats sheet,and you dont want it to be too deep, i can simplify it by removing the range/time and self healing properties..yea? that means  using as many units of type it takes to deny the regeneration,whadaya think?..also bear in mind the deshielding tactic i use for deviators is seperate from apc/laser...that is morely to know how much they can take vs a certain unit before they are destroyed, so one can decide wheather to attempt a rescue mission or to take your losses and leave..knowing it only takes 7 hits from a laser to kill a mino is valuable info to me for example, especially if im the atredies player..  but in any case ur sheet ur call :]