More UN corruption. *sigh* those globalists at it again

[Wolf]

EMPRWORM, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE COMMISSION. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS, WHICH WAS DRAFTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY Did you even read all of my posts?

[SurlyPIG]

The Commission is a joke as is most everything in the UN, but the UDHR is as good or better than any nation's charter/declaration/constitution of civil rights.

[emprworm]

The Commission is a joke as is most everything in the UN, but the UDHR is as good or better than any nation's charter/declaration/constitution of civil rights.

actually agree with Ace here.

[DukeLeto]

"Washington should have seen it coming because there has been a growing resentment towards the United States and ... votes on key human-rights standards, including opposition to a treaty to abolish land mines and to the International Criminal Court and making AIDS drugs available to everyone," she said in a Reuters report

http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/05/03/us.human/

This is your glorious United States and all their "conservative compassion."  Voting against the ICC, voting against providing life-saving medications, voting against non-proliferation.

And you ask why we got kicked off a human rights commission?

[DukeLeto]

The human rights comission is all about Islamic law.

And what is it with you and your incessant hatred of Islam?  You gripe about other people questioning Christianity, yet you never miss an opportunity to attack other people's religions.

We have a word for that: Hypocracy.

[emprworm]

http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/05/03/us.human/

This is your glorious United States and all their "conservative compassion."

[Wolf]

Okay, but, Emprworm, you kept on talking about the Commission, when I thought the issue was with the General Assembly -- so, it doesn't matter who chairs what committee, its just the whole UN as a whole that's a joke?

[DukeLeto]

bwahhahaha!  The US was kicked off a commission of "human rights" advocates...like Lybia, Cuba, Sudan, Iran.

Are you actually going to defend your position, or just spout the same line over and over and OVER.  The US doesn't xactly shine in the human rights department either, which you would know if your actually joined here in the REAL WORLD every once an a while.

[emprworm]

Okay, but, Emprworm, you kept on talking about the Commission, when I thought the issue was with the General Assembly -- so, it doesn't matter who chairs what committee, its just the whole UN as a whole that's a joke?

the general assembly contains dictator states.

the general assembly casts votes on the affairs of the world.

BUT

no dictator should EVER be allowed to cast a vote that affects the affairs of a free society.

THEREFORE

there is no logical reason why any free society should subject itself to the authority of the UN, so long as the UN allows dictators voting membership.

[SurlyPIG]

actually agree with Ace here.  kind of rare, but hey, what do you know!  :D

:O

I'm scared...Does this mean the world is ending?

[Edric O]

the general assembly casts votes on the affairs of the world.

BUT

no dictator should EVER be allowed to cast a vote that affects the affairs of a free society.

THEREFORE

there is no logical reason why any free society should subject itself to the authority of the UN, so long as the UN allows dictators voting membership.

Yes, wouldn't it be wonderful if all dictators withdrew from the UN? After all, just remember how well that worked LAST time...

...when Hitler withdrew from the League of Nations. ::)

I guess it never occured to you that the vote-casting issue goes both ways, did it? Yes, dictators can cast votes that affect free nations... but free nations can also cast votes that affect dictators. That's how we prevent another World War from starting.

[Edric O]

Oh, and by the way, regarding that UN corruption scandal...

The war in Iraq has already costed $ 114,626,000,000 and the cost is growing by about $1000 per second.

And if you hate the UN so much, would you like to see THESE UN agencies disbanded?

The Food and Agriculture Organization

The World Health Organization

The United Nations' Children's Fund

The United Nations' Environment Programme

The United Nations' Drug Control Programme

The United Nations' Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization

[Wolf]

Thank you, Edric. But, I do not think that will have any effect. I already tried pointing out the humanitarian/economic organizations, like FAO, UNDP, and others, and Emprworm stated what he stated before; as long as nations run by dictators are members of those committees, he feels he has no obligation to follow their mandates.

[nemafakei]

Oh, and by the way, don't try suggesting any organisations which are headed by democracies: Emprworm doesn't count those, either, judging by his previous comments against France's too-prominent role in the UN. For the UN to have any worth you need to find some international organisations run solely by countries who have not offended the US or Bush, with carefully-chosen-pro-US democratic leaders who definitely wouldn't want their departments to look too closely into the US, which is clearly above suspicion.

Oh, and since any such department would have no real viability or impartiality, it would by ignored by any other country as a US puppet, and so would fail miserably... and Emprworm's point would be proven.

The point about the UN is that it is an internationa organisation. It isn't perfect, but if western nations won't co-operate, why should they expect anyone else to?

Because, like the US, they don't want to let anone stop them doing what they want with their - and anyone else's - property, territory, or citizens. Pure self-interest.

[Dante]

no dictator should EVER be allowed to cast a vote that affects the affairs of a free society.

No, they should just be able to have their whims acted upon anyway without any votes, shouldn't they?

[emprworm]

if Europeans enjoy subjecting themselves to rule of dictators, great.  enjoy.

just dont demand that the US, where freedom was bought with blood, do the same.  free nations are an example of great forward progress.  subjecting themselves to the "votes" of dictators is a step backwards into societal regression.  what must happen for me to endorse the UN is this:  Dictator states must be pressured to move forward towards freedom and NOT the other way around.  Right now the UN is the other way around.  Dictator states are allowed to exist and continue while free states have to regress themselves to the wills of the dictators.

Remove all rights of dicator states to cast votes on world affairs...increase the representation of the US and Canada to more than 1 representative, and only then will I endorse the UN.

[Wolf]

What about China? Don't the 1,300,000,000 human beings there deserve the same say in world affairs as the 280,000,000 in the United States?

[emprworm]

What about China? Don't the 1,300,000,000 human beings there deserve the same say in world affairs as the 280,000,000 in the United States?

yes they do.

china is not a free nation, although it is not a dictatorship, so I am not sure about my feelings regarding it.  they are occupiers of tibet, and now Hong Kong (which should itself get an independent representative)

i dont like China

[nemafakei]

With no internationally accepted regulator, albeit an imperfect one, what's to stop any country pursuing any aim they like against weaker ones?

As to progress, the slow blade penetrates the shield. We co-operate and bind them with agreements to respect rights etc, (to which we ourselves must also agree), then we build up the pressure through channels they themselves have accepted. A heavy handed approach will leave us buying others' freedom with more of our and others' blood.

[Dante]

if Europeans enjoy subjecting themselves to rule of dictators, great.

[Edric O]

if Europeans enjoy subjecting themselves to rule of dictators, great.  enjoy.

As far as the people of country X are concerned, the ruler of country Y is ALWAYS a dictator - because they did not elect him!

Case in point: I live in Romania. I did not elect George Bush, and I have no say in what George Bush does. I also did not elect Kim Jong-Il, and I have no say in what Kim Jong-Il does. From my point of view, what does it matter that George Bush was democratically elected BY OTHER PEOPLE? Since *I* had no word in it, Bush might as well be a dictator as far as I'm concerned. The same applies to the leader of any other country.

You whiny complaints about unelected dictators in the UN don't seem to take into account THAT small fact. And your "solution" - expelling dictators from the UN - would have only one effect: Making the UN as impotent as the League of Nations.

Oh, and you STILL haven't said a word about all the good humanitarian work done by THESE UN agencies:

The Food and Agriculture Organization

The World Health Organization

The United Nations' Children's Fund

The United Nations' Environment Programme

The United Nations' Drug Control Programme

The United Nations' Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization

When they feed children, fight disease and protect the environment, are they doing the work of "evil dictators"? ::)

china is not a free nation, although it is not a dictatorship...

Not a dictatorship? What planet are you living on, Emprworm? When was the last time you saw free elections in China?

Or perhaps now that China loves and embraces capitalism so much, you've decided to turn a blind eye to its utter lack of democracy and horrible human rights record?

[emprworm]

i dont like China.

[Wolf]

In an increasingly globalized and technologically-driven world a body like the UN will become necessary to ensure the stability and security of humanity.

[Edric O]

the UN is a horrible organization because it does absolutely nothing to discourage human rights abuses in oppressive governments.

We all know what the UN doesn't do, but what about all the things that it does do?

You seem to be saying the UN is bad because it doesn't cure all the evil in the world... ::)

[emprworm]

half of the truth is still a whole lie.

purge the filth from the UN (remove all ability to dictator states to make decisions over the affairs of free societies) and only then will it begin taking steps towards credibility.