christianity

[Emperor Harkonnen]

What ever happened to christianity in dune? does it say anywhere in the DE? How could they forget about Jesus and Santa Claus :'(

and I read that the Book of Job still exist in the O.C. Bible. there we have some christianity, and so does the new and old testamen simplified edition though.

It seems though as if the Orange Catholic Bible was mostly influented by Christianity.

[Caid Ivik]

Personal cults in christianity vanished, because you could find that the main way was mahayana christianity. That's a form I think could be compared to medieval apolinarism. Apollinaire teached that Jesus was only a God, no human, like some kind of emanation, illusion of Him. Today's mahayans have such view on all their masters including Buddha himself, and their "god" is even unpersonal, just a thing, over such primitive thing like conscience. I hope it is clear enough...

[Emperor Harkonnen]

kinda strange though that the supreme largest religion in the world would just vanish. everything which democray and human rights are built upon.

but then again maybe that is why they don't have human rights and democracy in dune, because they don't have christianity.

[TMA_1]

(baron, I am a christian too, but remember this is a series of sci fi books, not to be taken so seriously man! hehe :) )

Christianity is not the largest religion on the face of the earth at all. And in the humanistic view of Dune, it would seem logical when space travel became easy and popular, that culture would change. Also new prophets and new mixes of eccumenism would change the face of all religions. Christianity became a mix with many other religions, and there are small small hints to it. Mainly judeism is part of the established church in the dune universe more than christianity, and many other religions like islam and buddhism are encorperated too, but are mixed and change to the point that they seem hard to seperate.

For example in Dune Messiah, Idaho is accomplished in theology of sorts. but his zensunni doctern so differs from the regular forms of islam and zen buddhism that it is strange. Read the religious quotes and allusions he makes, it sounds like a mix of islamic lore, and zen philosophy of opposites. He constantly asks riddles and questions that beg more questions, very "zenish" lol bad word but you get what I mean.

Christianity is simply not apart of Dune as a seperate faith, and has been altered beyond vision of it's origional form. The only true faith that has stuck it out from what I see is judeism. Which is quite interesting. I wonder what they thought of the various messiahs, and if the faith still believes in a messiah.

Dont tkae this stuff so seriously Baron, I highly doubt frank was a christian, and highly doubt frank wanted to keep christianity in tact, because that would ruin the eccumenical approch he wanted to make. It owuld also "westernize" it in certain ways. Even though christianity is not originally a western concept, the various shallow churches of america and others have made christ a western symbol. Even to the point of anti semitism by making christ white. That is the true evil by the way of churches now days, taking away the jewish roots. anyways...lol as I said before, you wont find much christianity in Dune,why is this so important to you?

[Emperor Harkonnen]

First of all my name is not baron. it has never been. lol it says emperor. but I understand if you won't accept a harkonnen as an emperor. I fully understand. ;)

if christianity is not the largest religion, then what is?

christianity has over 2 billion followers. while Islam which is the second largest has a little more than half of that.

I know frank wasn't a christian. the dune books are taken from other religions, such as Islam and Jewism.

It is important to me because I believe in the dune future as realistic, and a future without christianity seems unrealistic to me, since I am christian, and believe that the christian God exsist. therefore the religion can't be removed since he is the right God.

[Dunenewt]

If the OCB is still around then surely Christianity is still around...?

[TMA_1]

just because you believe the lord is the true lord (I do too) doesnt mean that it has to be that way in the Dune books. It also doesnt mean Dune is unrealistic. Of course Dune is fanciful, and isnt a true dipiction of a future, it is a possible future, but that is about it. If you look at it from a perspective of one who isnt a christian, christianity is like any other religion, and frank treats it as such, it is that simple.

Also, islam is growing to be a bigger religion, and not only that most christians who proclaim to be christians dont even believe jesus. If you ask a "christian" what they believe, most of the time they will just say they beleive in "God". So true christians are slim. That is another subject though.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

Christianity is only a part of the oc bible. and true christianity does not exsit anymore.

of course a nonchristian would look at it differently. however I cannot say what he would think. I can say what I think though.

Perhaps islam is growing more. but that was not the issue. the issue of which religion is the greatest is the one with the most followers. which is christianity. it will be a long time before islam reaches as many as christianity.

Islam is built upon war. it will not last for long, since our society is built upon human rights and democracy, and that is what will be dominant in the future. the christian countries will have the best standard of living if not the islam ones change, and we will have the most money.

[Caid Ivik]

OC Bible is a main book of mahayana christianity and buddislam. Created by an ecumenic council long time ago, not sure if before or after Djihad.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

it was before jihad. It was created when mankind started space travel.

[TMA_1]

actually it was created shortly after the jihad when people wanted to unite religions. The people in power did not want more jihads following, and knew the only way of doing so was to unite (and somewhat water down) religions. The OC bible was made so that all religions could use some central spiritual texts which was the primary glue for eccumenism.

Islam isnt based on war, and christianity is so twisted and mutated as to be almost extinct now days. Most "christians" are probably not christians at all, based on most doctern I know christians of. It is sad but I think that christianity in this world is bogus, because so many people completely misunderstand doctern. Many also try to destroy or take away doctern. So if it mixes with our modern culture, that is only because it has gone away from the truth.

anyways... lol back on topic.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

nah this is topic too. and even though we christians are so widely different we are united in the faith of the same god!

and isn't this the case with islam also? they have dividment between sunni and shia islam. some muslims are terrorist and some aren't. some use violent methods and others despise it.

[Atomic Mitten]

Exactly like Christians ! then.

No matter what religions people follow, people kill each other.So what does religion have to do with anything , really.

Throughout History people have used religion for a very wide spectrum of justifying killing others, I for one am sick and tired of all the Hypocracy of man.

The only real reasons for killing is Greed, power, and jealosy.When has anyone been killed for a good reason ?

Does a good reason exist ?

[Emperor Harkonnen]

yes someone can be killed to avoid greed, power and jealosy!

not many christian people in the western world kill others because of religion. christianity was something new when it came. it was a religion with human values! In the roman empire all the sick, old and weak never got help before christianity came and gathered them to help them! this is a fact!

[Emperor Harkonnen]

that is a completely cavil argument >:(

In nothern Ireland they want independence from Britain. Independence. It is not because of religion they kill one another, it is because they want independence.

If that was the fact then you might call the war with russians against tchetchenians also a religion-war.

[Atomic Mitten]

Under what circumstances can someone be killed then in justifiable way ?

yes someone can be killed to avoid greed, power and jealosy!

I'm talking about the so called modern world, not the Roman Empire.

[Atomic Mitten]

In Northern Ireland the war has lasted 800 years, protestants against catholics and vice versa, it isn't just about political freedom from the British government.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

why did u delete ur last post ???

anyway I can find examples of that in our time too. for eksampel can someone who wants too much power be killed, like Adolf Hitler.

[Atomic Mitten]

Because I messed up the quote.

Several attempts were made to assasinate Hitler.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

yes and the attempts to assisnate him was because people wanted freedom! it was not because they wanted his power!

no in Northern Ireland today it is mostly about politics. hundred years ago it was maybe about religion, but now I believe it is all about politics.

[Atomic Mitten]

not many christian people in the western world kill others because of religion. christianity was something new when it came. it was a religion with human values! In the roman empire all the sick, old and weak never got help before christianity came and gathered them to help them! this is a fact!

Ok, what about the Spanish Inquisitors ?

[Atomic Mitten]

Some of the attempts on Hitlers life were attempted because the plotters thought he was insane, and could see where things were going.

And some were Christians who realised that this Atheist Hitler would eventually wipe out Christianity.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

what about the spanish inquisitors?

what do you mean?

I think the reason that people mainly wanted hitler off the way was because he took away the freedom of others. not because of any religion. it was political.

[TMA_1]

get back on topic guys... geesh.

[Atomic Mitten]

The Spanish Inquisitors tortured people until they either begged Gods forgiveness, or stated they would become Christians.

You said in one of your posts that western countries didn't kill other people because of religion.

They did !Re Hitler, I disagree.