PRISON

[Egeides]

Who says they have to be more violent?

Many studies. The study (or studies) refering to Canada's abolishment of the death penalty versus criminality is only ONE case, since there are some others, in part from northern Europe. Now, about the reasons bringing this, perhaps violence brings violence. I know that in northern Europe, some country makes some kind of closed villages where prisoners lurn to live together without hitting each other. It seems that the argument "the harder the consequences, the less violence" is false.

To me, for a society, it's a question of cost-efficiency. Now I guess some will prefer to look at it as "he hit me, then he should be hit by the arm of justice", but I believe that if this only brings violence (and for a state, also associated costs) then it's no good.

[Acriku]

Define violence, because as I see it, there are nonviolent ways of killing a man.

[Dante]

Yes, there are. Both inexpensive and subtle.

[Egeides]

Here, to attain to someone's life is a violence. If not physically, psychologically. Anyway, it is seen as oppressing someone. I'm sure prisoners see their life violently ended :P Anyway, SOMEHOW, it seems that the harshest carceral programs do not bring the best results for criminality (basing on the studies).

IF (I said if) it would bring a society to be less violent, would you be for abolishment of death penalty?

Dust: What is your sentence refering to?

[Acriku]

If it will work in America, sure. But I'm not so sure. These studies you keep referring to, do you have any online documentation that I can update myself with?

[Dante]

There are indeed nonviolent ways of killing a person. That's what I was refering to; both inexpensive and subtle.

Like poison. Poison isn't violent and can be relitively cheap.

[Egeides]

Dust: On someone's mind, death is violent in itself. Taking from you your wife and children may be done in a "non-violent way", it's still violent to you. Anyway, the point is that studies are shwing a correlation between death penalty and violence in society, and that this correlation extends not only to death penalty.

Acriku: Actually, I got most of this on TV in some special report. It was about prisons all around the world.

[Acriku]

Do you see loving wives and children plotting to kill people? Most of the time you see men, rarely women, who are hard to bring much sympathy to them giving the weight of the situation.

[Egeides]

Perhaps, but it's not about "he's lovely? Ok, we don't kill him" This is Greenpeace when their most extreme elements basically said "Don't kill seals: they're so cuuuute". Well it seemed it messed an ecosystem by stopping hunting for such reasons.

The question is not about if they are lovely or not, it's about "would the criminality go down or not".

[Acriku]

If it is about that, then why'd you bring up an argument to Dust concerning wives and children?