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BlackThorny

Fremen
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  1. I observed this in my experiments. As a general rule I assumed the AI will continue to produce attacking force for as long as it had the building producing them and enough credits to build the unit. Using the method explained in my other post I was able to destroy its units fast enough to notice when it ran out of credits: At that point the unit production would come to a short halt that broke immediately after the return of its harvester with a new spice load. Eventually when the spice depleted the AI could no longer produce more units, so I started to destroy its buildings... only to find out it builds more units after each time I destroy a building. Further investigation revealed that the more expensive the building was the more units it produced (I kept it from repairing as I didn't harm other buildings so all its credits were used towards unit production). It's possible the AI gets some kind of additional income for it's destroyed units as well, but this will require more research.
  2. Thanks Nyerguds, I will check your editor and post the results :) Thank you MrFilbble for all the info and the kind words! I already knew what was written in the 'official' faq though, and the changes between what was written there and my version was what left me wondering. Btw, I don't believe the phenomena I was describing had anything to do with map limits, as I had maxed my units but the AI had nothing but a harvester (+1 temporal unit atm). Also In my mission 2 the buildings did decay, although being placed on a slab. Only in mission 1 they didn't decay on a slab (but decay without one). I guess I'll be heading to apply the 1.07 patch, now that I know it's an official one that doesn't alter game experience... Or is it? you say the AI keeps building now much more often, and this does change stuff a bit. Also the unlimited harvester 'fix' ruins the whole point in maxing the score on each mission as you can always do nothing in particular and then target the harvester to infinity. Continuous harvesters though can produce another infinite score boundary: As killing a harvester 50+% full on sand provides more spice then it contains, you basically enable unlimited supply of spice, as long as you keep shooting and killing an enemy harvester after it gains more then half its capacity. Thanks for explaining the title differences as I did get confused. I'm actually surprised that more the 15 years after it's release, and no one has yet took the mission to solve the score mechanics of dune 2. Better get that spice algorithm then, and see if it in fact depends on the AIs performance on the same grounds. This leaves to investigate the rest of the formula, if indeed the state of your units affects the score (apparently the state of your buildings do not, but maybe their number does). As my experiments develop I will continue to update this post, and after all elements revealed I will try to check if they alter upon game conditions: for example building other units instead, maybe check if there's some bonus on special skirmish victories ( like when in one battle a trike defeats a tank)... And comparing differences between 1.00 and 1.07, if applicable. As the last step, I'll probably reverse engineer the whole schematic to see if I was right ;)
  3. Well I Started playing Dune 2 : The Building of a dynasty a couple of days ago, and wanted to achieve the maximal score possible in every mission. I found out that on map one as Ordos, I could get a score of 135 or so when I took 45 minutes to: Mop up all spice available, build on every piece of land I can concrete (beside ones that are too small), kill all enemy units without losing any of my own, all map revealed. I got a score of 91/2 or so when I only kill all the enemy units (with no deaths on my part) and harvest as little spice possible - No Slabs, One Harvester trip. This was possible within 11 minutes. All my buildings were 50% obviously. Doing the same with only 1 enemy unit killed (the only one that attacks by itself) and no additional map exploration was possible within 4 minutes and generated a score of 90. Going back to a save I made before wining and repairing all buildings and waiting for the next harvester trip took 6 minutes and generated a score of 88. When I waited for 3 hours doing nothing (no harvest other then to replenish the amount of decayed spice, repair, etc) the score went down to 30. - A point deducted for every 2-3 minutes? On the next stage I forced the AI to keep building a single heavy trooper I kept squashing with my harvester. This took a while to organize as I had to eliminate all other units and then surround the wor with my units that don't harm it (by ordering them to attack an empty space) and all this was made while sending another unit to reveal the rest of the map to destroy the rest of the AI units so they won't interfere with my harvester squashing. I let the AI harvest almost all spice before I started killing it (up to 4 times, see below). Eventually As the map was mopped I Achieved the rank of 322/3 - Outpost Commander, After 2h10m,around 2k (AI 23k) spice, 271/2 enemy units killed vs 4 of mine (all of them harvesters), 4 enemy buildings destroyed vs none of mine. Further investigations were as followed: - Each enemy unit I killed gave me an additional point. - Each of my units dying deducted 2-3 points, 4-8 deducted per destructed building. I still can't figure out how score is affected by spice harvesting/buildings building, it isn't a percentage calculation vs the AI, but it most definitely is a factor. Assuming my score continues with me to the next scenario I tried to apply similar tactics, but only got a score of 275... which means the score doesn't carry out. Also I had around 20 of my units perish during my struggle to make the AI produce only infantry (they are cheaper then quads/trikes) to max my kill score, and this obviously why my score took a blow. I did encounter several problems on my way: In most cases, when I have more then one Refinery and a harvester dies out/gets eaten by a worm, I DON'T get a replacement. Only when my last harvester dies I get another one to replace it. This also stops around the time I get 5 replacements, and then I get stuck with no harvesters at all... Building additional Refineries does nothing to remedy the problem. The same applies to AI harvesters, they get a replacement harvester only up till their 5th harvester and then stay with no harvester at all. At some point the AI harvester stopped going to spice locations, nor did the carryall took it there. trying to kill it only caused it to re spawn up to the limit, but then the carryall just took the re spawned harvester of the map... this happens ever so often when there is no more spice on the map, but this happening even when there is spice was disturbing. Also my harvesters virtually never switch for the closest refinery. Even when I use the move command, as sure as they reload again they head back to their initial refinery. I noticed this can be altered at some points, such as when that refinery is occupied it will auto head for another, or when it finishes harvesting at the top of the map and encounter a refinery on the path to another, and then 'mark' it as their own. I have no idea what version I am using other then it doesn't have a copy protection and has a glitch instead, and my buildings and spice decay over time (buildings don't decay on the first mission). I also have none of the changes introduced by the 1.07 patch or super dune so it definitely isn't one of those. I use Dosbox 0.74. I read you speak of a Dune 2: Battle for Arrakis, is this another PC version or is it console only? Any other information regarding the score mechanics or regarding the bugs will be very appreciated :) Best Regards, BlackThorny
  4. The AI also gets credits upon every destruction of one of its buildings. I assume it's the same amount of credits the building costs.
  5. I once tried to disregard all messages (starting the one with the vision about something terrible has happened) until after I defeated all the fortresses (thus causing Leto's death to be impossible, logically wise anyways, he remained there but all the characters continued to think he was dead), leaving Harah behind in the palace and taking Stilgar and Gurney with me. This was hard at first, but using the freed fremen as new military forces and utilizing the weapons gained as well as keep training them with Gurney, I was able to mass a large enough force without ever getting to know Chani and her father. This also provided a bug -> Harah would no longer want to go on an orni with me, and kept staying in the palace, thus I couldn't bring her home. Since I disregarded Stilgar requests to meet Chani, and after I did meet her I disregarded when he asked me why I don't ask her to go with me, I never got to the part of worm riding by that time. I think after I did take (and leave) Chani the same would happen if I try with a worm, or maybe Harah wouldn't follow me into the desert. I'm not sure if this happened only because I first met with Chani and then disregarded Harah's requests to go home (She was complaining while I was in the same room with her in the palace, as I didn't have her with me), until she 'gave up' asking for it, and the game regarded as if the palace IS her new home (by this point of the story, she wasn't suppose to move anywhere, same as when she was in her home sietch).
  6. Here is something you probably* never saw before: conquer all the harkonnen fortresses BEFORE** you convince Chani to go with you, then follow the story as before. Eventually you'll get to the part where your men are getting sick, and you'll leave Chani there. See the vision they are cured and go there, they will say she disappeared (or if another group is sick she will need to go there and cure them too and then disappear after the vision). Now we all know she should be in one of the harkonnen fortresses, but there aren't any left... where is she? She is in the harkonnen Palace! you obviouslly can't spy to know that, but you can go and ride there with a worm to see a cutscene of Chani standing in front of the palace just before you die! That was very cool when I saw it, unfortunately the game was pretty much stuck as I couldn't launch the final attack without Chani. I hope I made a save with that situation so I can post it. *Maybe you did, I can't read Italian... Any chance the English version will be out soon? ** I'm not sure if it HAS to be before you take Chani with you, but it obviouslly has to happen before your men get sick, and after they are, it's getting rather hard to defeat all the remaining harkonnen fortresses without curing them first.
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