Haven't played online (I'd like to), but it seems like a usual opinion that equally large ordos forces lose against atreides, so I just want to know more about that; Gunwounds: "And kobras are always screwed because in late game vs mass minos they get killed due to the minos extended range and full salvo expending." Mr Apollinax: "Minos do not have extended range, as such. The problem of this misconception comes due to an emperor bug involving the guard range. The kobra will not fire automatically at units at the very outside of its guard range, much like turrets often don't. You can tell the kobra to fire on units, however, that are on this band of range and they will, but this micro costs time." So which unit shoots first, if the kobra is told to shoot before the mino gets in range (I haven't the game here now)? Mr Apollinax: "Also, due to the immobile nature of the kobra, the minos have the opportunity to eliminate the kobra wall bit by bit using maximum force on a watered down force of kobras. Here's how I picture what you are saying: The minos stop right outside the range of the cobra masses, though where there are any protrusions in the cobra wall, some minos charge. Would it not be possible to even the odds by having some backup undeployeds, to roll in next to the exposed kobras? I should really like to see those big equally sized battles some time. If the minos are better, how much bigger must the kobra force be? Mr Apollinax: "In that way ATR does indeed have a slight advantage late-game, although the advantage is extremely slight when considering laser tanks and deviators." Gunwounds: "Yes but the problem is that mass subhouse units and infantry units can easily cancel this out. mass reg sards or mass elites, or mass light inf , or mass kindjal can easily frustrate the hell out of the ordos shielded hovercraft units. Ensuring that the atreides keep their edge." I don't see many of you oldbies talking alot about geese or sonics or atr APC either. I think I'd be able to use the ordos' hovercraft better than I could use any of the atr counterparts. But I guess not as a frontline in a huge force. Those battles would mostly be a pissing match between the artillery, and the other stuff thrown in to protect it from the other side's "other stuff"? One thing that seems nice about the kobras is that the shells are evenly spaced out, it is less likely to waste shells on a dead target, or so it seems. Though the mino would get the first four (?) rounds off sooner I guess, destroying the target before it can retaliate or flee (which I think is mentioned in the first quote)? How are they matched otherwise, in armor, average rof and firepower? Do I remember correctly those three are equal? Gunwounds: "We would meet in center of map and i was like an unstoppable force. The minos/elites/feds killed the kobras while they were deploying, the kindjal/inf/feds killed the lasers, and the elites/feds killed the deviators." Would it not have been better to have some cobras already deployed instead of moving them under your guns first? Edit: Are any of you playing slower than eight sometimes? Seems way too fast to get a good grip on the more detailed mechanics and learning microing quickly.