A Trick In Knowledge?

[GhostHunter]

Ok people say god created the universe....Thus the dimensions to go along with it....But one must ask, if god made these, how could he even exist to do so?

[Acriku]

Ah, this is where creationists (believers of God's Creation and how it came to be) would say "God exists outside of the universe", etc. It is basically assuming what is most likely to affirm one's beliefs.

[GhostHunter]

Ah but jesus came to earth, meaning he was in the universe, thus provin god dont live outside the universe and if ya still say he does why hasn't he visited us, I mean jesus never came back as anther form....

[GhostHunter]

This is where my theory comes in....My theory states that relegion and gods themselves are fake, made for another way to held empires and societys in place...Ex: You dont rob a bank you wont go to hell....Thus no crime from that person...

[Acriku]

I think they would say God can exist in any plain of existence, and therefore would be able to be everywhere at once, inside and outside of the universe, and did not visit us himself because there would then be no faith to accept Jesus, which is what his whole shebang is about. Also, Jesus never has come back in another form because it's said that he is coming back to take the believers with him to Heaven, so that's when he comes back.

Just playing the devil's advocate (no pun intended) here.

[emprworm]

I think what you are confusing here is God interacting with the universe and the universe containing God. Our universe is linear and finite. We exist in a linear timeline. Just like a line in a plane, we cannot reach outside of time and look at the whole of the plane.

The whole universe and everything in it is like a parade. We are part of the parade. We cannot see the beginning or the end of the parade. We can only see those around us who are 'moving' with us in the parade.

God is a spectator on a building outside the parade. he can see the whole thing- beginning to end.

At any time, he can interact with the parade. he can step in and out of any part of the parade, yet is not confined to the parade.

[GhostHunter]

Err....Tell me if all these gods were true, why in the hell did they happen so long ago, and there hasn't been one like forever.....So we are supposed to believe our relgions gods when they were around supposivly so long ago that there is no HARD proof?

[emprworm]

huh?

what do you mean "all these gods?"

i believe in only 1 God.

[Acriku]

So this is a sort of pre-destination here? If not, then our past would be linear and our present a coordinate in time, and the future not yet plotted?

[GhostHunter]

Well Empr, diffrent relgions have diffrent gods....

[emprworm]

i dont know whether we have freewill or not. i do know that we have perceived freewill. some would argue that God would not deceive and give us something that isn't true. the truth is i dont know.

[emprworm]

yes differnt religions have different gods, and they are irrational.

[GhostHunter]

Irrational????

[emprworm]

yes as in they believe in an irrational god(s).

since know one knows FOR SURE the answer to whether this universe was created or popped into existence from nothing, we must go only by belief. I choose belief which is most rational. ie: i reject the idea that a guy named Zeus made the universe.

[Acriku]

Well Zeus didn't make the universe? Something about Uranus and Gaea the Titans (woah my school mascot, the Titan);)

[emprworm]

lol, well no matter- its all hogwash

[GhostHunter]

HA THATS EXACKLY WHAT IM TALKIN BOUT! People want you to believe YOUR god did this and not forsay Zues or something....This also makes people cancel out ideas like relegion is fake..

[Acriku]

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

...Stephen F Roberts

[emprworm]

lol. not exactly. you see it is philosophically impossible that Zeus or whoever could have created the universe. I already told you that those gods are irrational to begin with, therefore impossible they could ever exist.

the God i believe in is not irrational.

[emprworm]

I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

yes, like me you dismiss all irrational self-contradictory deities. But unlike me, you also dismiss the single consistent definition of God that does not contain self-inherent irrational flaws.

SIMILAR:

I contend we are both flat-earth believers, I just believe in one fewer possible 3 dimensional shapes of the earth than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible 3 dimensional shapes for the earth, you will understand why I dismiss your round one."

[GhostHunter]

YOUR CUTTIN THE POSSIBILITIES OUT! For god sake Empr, ever think someone else would say YOUR god is irrational???? Then we get this cycle again..

[emprworm]

you cannot just say my God is irrational. You have to point out the contradictory flaws inherent in my definition of God. Just saying my God is irrational doesn't make it so. Illustrate the inconsistencies first.

[Acriku]

I refer back to the quote, :)

[emprworm]

and i refer back to my response to the quote ;)

[GhostHunter]

You illistrate the inconsistences with EVERY OTHER GOD IN EVERY OTHER RELGEION! Then I might change my opinion...