War

[jeffryfisher]

Troop and munition cargo/buildings confuse me. Since my "US History" scenario covers so much time, and because I wanted to put some real history into it, I tried adding some wartime buildings to the map in the hope that events could raise and lower military freight production as wars came and went. I also thought I might give a player a chance to avoid Wilson's WWI nationalization by transporting enough materiel before the USRA is scheduled.

Unfortunately, the military buildings never produce anything ever. Is the territory wars switch needed just to activate the military buildings? If so, does that switch have side effects that should concern me as I design a long-term scenario for which war is only an interruption?

If wartime railroading can't be combined well with an advanced economy scenario, then I'll give it up. However, it would add a valuable historical dimension to be able to ramp up the troop etc production (and demands) at particular times. It would also be an interesting multiplayer side-game to pit North versus South during the "War Between the States". Maybe that must wait for its own short-run scenario.

[jeffryfisher]

Well, I did some time sliding and discovered that the weapons factory and munitions plant don't offer conversions until 1905. The buildings become available in 1800, but they're useless until almost WWI. That leaves barracks as the only load generators for 19th C conflicts like the Civil War.

The other thing I noticed is that pre-placing any military building inside a city boundary will prevent houses from forming there. Even a megalopolis in 1940 will be vacant. It seems that military buildings don't play nice with basic economics.

I turned off the "territory wars" switch, and the "prevent houses" effect became "almost always" instead of absolute.

Tomorrow I'll check to see if mil buildings generated randomly suppress houses the same way, and whether mil buildings in rural areas suppress normal economic development there or in nearby cities.

[cogeo]

Yeah, the "territory wars" switch is a "global" setting, and there are no effects that can change it, so most probably you may not want to use it, esp for such a long sceanrio, with few war years. Maybe you can simulate this effect by making narrow hidden territory "stripes" along the borders, and add events with a random chance of say 1% per month, that condiscate the "foreign" companies' trains, but I'm not sure about this.

The feature of military buildings suppressing development, is something I have noticed too, not only with military industries, but with all industry types actually. For example, a "town" or "village" that has the "luck" to have grown an industry, most likely will find it hard to grow to the critical size of four houses, unless... the industry is well served and generates fairly high from- and/or to- revenues (check the station's stats by the end of the year). If the viallage is "lucky" enough to have two industries, will almost certainly never grow to the size of four. It seems that the city initial size spec (village, town, city etc) along with the initial (global) develepment level (plus growth), plus some random factor, determines the total (effective) city size, and that industries are included in this total.

Barracks is actually my most... beloved "industry" building type. They are great demand boosters for food and alcohol. Stations having them in their boundaries will see demand for these cargos rising to levels such as 6, 7 or 8, and with two barracks units it will easily rise to 9, and recover very fast, even if 6-car trains deliver their cargos there. So you can set up some very lucrative routes with these. If the distance is long, revenue for a 6-car food or alcohol train can even exceed $1M! Another important thing is that the village or town will be demanding food & alcohol, even with less than 4 houses!

Now, the cargos they produce is a different story, they have a lifetime of 9 months, just like passengers, and they can actually be very profitable, so they are essentially "express" cargos, to a degree that they can even hauled on the same train w/ passengers (weight is similar too, only slightly higher than pax & mail). If the other city (of your "pair") does not have barracks, you can use the "drop cargo" option; pax & mail will generate its normal revenue, while the causual troops load will be stored in the station. From that point they can hauled to another city (with barracks) with a special train, when the cargos depoted reach a number of 3 or 4 (or even 2, depending on your play style). This way you can avoid 1-car trains, just for the troops. On the other hand, relatively short routes between barracks can prove very profitable even with 1-car trains, if served with an inexpensive engine, like the D16sb. Only "problem", possibly due to some game bug, troop cars are not available before 1900 (you see the loads in the station info panel, but there are no cars to haul them!). Oooh, and now I've just got an idea, mod the game to make them available eariler! (I'm modding the game, you know)

And a suggestion for your scenario, maybe consider using the "townhouse" industry type in your larger cities and metros. They look like appartments/condos, and generate and accept pax, mail and other cargos (just like normal houses). So your cities will look more like real cities. Look out though, they count as TWO houses, so set their chance of growth to a low or very low number, otherwise your cities may be generating so many pax & mail that hauling any other (slower) cargo will be impossible (which I guess you'll finally not avoid, with the growth rate you have set  :P).

Hope you found this information helpful.

[jeffryfisher]

I'm modding the game, you know

How do you mod the game? Do you hack the EXE file, or are there ancillary data files that are easier to understand?

And a suggestion for your scenario, maybe consider using the "townhouse" industry type in your larger cities and metros...

I think I remember trying them years ago, and there was some kind of problem with them in a non-metro map. I don't recall just what the symptom was (maybe no other houses showing), but I gave up on them before ever sorting it out. Am I confusing them with "apartment"?

with the growth rate you have set  :P).

Hey, I'm not done testing yet  ;)

[djf01]

Unfortunately, the military buildings never produce anything ever. Is the territory wars switch needed just to activate the military buildings? If so, does that switch have side effects that should concern me as I design a long-term scenario for which war is only an interruption?

You can't really use industries before they are allowed to "appear" in the game.  You can put them on the map in the editor, but they usually don't work, and in the case of the military buildings the cars to haul the loads aren't available either.

I remember trying to do something similar in an American history map - requiring the delivery of uranium to Area 51 to allow the US to win WWII (I know, not exactly historically accurate :-)), but I never figured out a way to do it.

{quote]

The other thing I noticed is that pre-placing any military building inside a city boundary will prevent houses from forming there. Even a megalopolis in 1940 will be vacant. It seems that military buildings don't play nice with basic economics.

{/quote]

This is true of *any* industry placed in a city using the editor, and is a known bug.  I *think* it is triggered when the random city generator tries to put some houses in the city, but the space is already taken.  The routine aborts, and there are no houses or indutry at all, other than what you put their yourself.  One of the PopTop maps - the one in eastern Europe with a  nuclear reactor at Warsaw exhibits this bug.

If you want to force specific industries at a specific town, you can either use the probability percentages (which are not 100% reliable), or you can paint in all aspects of your own city (but it looks the same in every incarnation of the map).

[Gwizz]

The only way I can get troop cars to appear before their time is to use an AI RR.

The AI can do things your RR can not do.  I placed a troop station so it could only haul troops.

The AI train loaded troop cars and delivered them to where I had routed them to go.

An awkward and limited method; but like djf01, I was unable to find a way for my RR to haul troops before troop cars were available.

[jeffryfisher]

You can't really use industries before they are allowed to "appear" in the game.  You can put them on the map in the editor, but they usually don't work, and in the case of the military buildings the cars to haul the loads aren't available either.

Okay... I've started experimenting with mil buildings as probabilities. They start appearing in the 1800s, and they don't bugger the appearance of houses, but they still don't function (and cars aren't available) until about 1905.

I guess that's another bug, but at least it's not fatal. It's just unfortunate that one of the first railroad wars (the US Civil War) can't be modeled unless one shifts the date by about half a century.

[Gwizz]

I made a map of the Civil War.  I used passenger cars for troop cars.  I took Hookers men on a round about journey to save the Blue coats near the South Coast.   

I don't remember if I posted it here or not.  I don't think I did.  I did send it to a couple map builders at Hawks site.

I'm busy, but, I'll take some time and look for it if any one is interested.

[Gwizz]

I did post the Civil War in the heartland map.  There is a thread about it.

I did find john in the ether.  He was actually in the PM area and not lost at all.  :-\

And I unlocked the modding thread.  It was stuck in the locked position.

I moved the thread and the lock fell off.