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Posted

I did a lot of testing to find a way to mimic a socialstic economy.

Since government is not programable in RT2, I use results to minic effects.

Your RR company, at you choosing, will use heavy spending, deep debt and high taxes in the form of higher rates charged for hauling.  It will collect the higher rates to fund a system you may feel is out of control.  Simular to

today's modern governments.

If you are successful, you will have taken control of nearly all of the AI railroads.  While Mr Hill was a successful chairmen in real life, He (you) will find new methods to be a bit different then used in real life or in game play. 

Play methods:

First pay special attention to the map's start up notes. (Dialogs)  You will find many hints on what the economy is going to do to you.  The value of hauled cargo will jump up and down.  Don't try to monitor these values unless you enjoy micro-management.  The start up notes will tell you what to expect and plan for.

Don't complete or run your railroad until you have set up some feeder AIs to supply your demand industries.  Then when high price cargo is there for you, finish a section of your RR and route your trains so you can limit the micro-management of trains.  I check my trains and the AI trains I control, once each year.

Spend the time planning for areas of possible congestion.  Use diagonal

(no stopping for another train) Crossings and keep ramps (switching between legs of a crossing) longer than a train's length.

It is best not to merge too many AIs too soon.  Just buy all of their stocks to keep other Chairmen from buying it.  You want all chairmen to build Railroads.

As in real life, you will bankrupt them to add to your own wealth.

Save often so you can back up to fix an error, something governments have not learned how to do.  The real life decisions are always fatal.  I mean final.  ::)    :O    ???  :'(

 

Economy_map_18.zip

Posted

I did a lot of testing to find a way to mimic a socialstic economy.

Since government is not programable in RT2, I use results to minic effects.

Your RR company, at you choosing, will use heavy spending, deep debt and high taxes in the form of higher rates charged for hauling.  It will collect the higher rates to fund a system you may feel is out of control.  Simular to

today's modern governments.

If you are successful, you will have taken control of nearly all of the AI railroads.  While Mr Hill was a successful chairmen in real life, He (you) will find new methods to be a bit different then used in real life or in game play. 

Play methods:

First pay special attention to the map's start up notes. (Dialogs)  You will find many hints on what the economy is going to do to you.  The value of hauled cargo will jump up and down.  Don't try to monitor these values unless you enjoy micro-management.  The start up notes will tell you what to expect and plan for.

Don't complete or run your railroad until you have set up some feeder AIs to supply your demand industries.  Then when high price cargo is there for you, finish a section of your RR and route your trains so you can limit the micro-management of trains.  I check my trains and the AI trains I control, once each year.

Spend the time planning for areas of possible congestion.  Use diagonal

(no stopping for another train) Crossings and keep ramps (switching between legs of a crossing) longer than a train's length.

It is best not to merge too many AIs too soon.  Just buy all of their stocks to keep other Chairmen from buying it.  You want all chairmen to build Railroads.

As in real life, you will bankrupt them to add to your own wealth.

Save often so you can back up to fix an error, something governments have not learned how to do.  The real life decisions are always fatal.  I mean final.  ::)    :O    ???  :'(

 

Posted

The Economy Map plays a lot better than the Socialist Map.  It is also easier to play.

For those that like a builder's map, you can build a number of railroads that supply your

main line RR, just like the real railroads did in 1900.

With the rain today I quit early and started a new game.

I'm now in the 7th month from the start.

I own the rail from San Franciso to Chicago with a branch to St Louis and a branch to some dairies.

I had planned to later merged My 2nd AI RR.  It was the AI I used to build stations as place holders to Block AIs.

But, It had all reverse interest bonds that would pay me interest, instead of me paying interest to them.

This is close to what Freddy and Fannie did with their bad loans in real life, causing many banks to go belly up. 

With 8 AIs starting up so soon, I was deep in margin.  My RR had 6 to 8 percent bonds and I was able to sell

all but one bond.  I floated 19 negative bonds with my AI and used its' cash to merge my main RR.

I owned all 40K of my stock and the AI had 20K.  Liquidating the 40K put me 2 million in the black.

Now the AI became my main RR company and I was able to control one more AI. 

I had enough cash to fill in the gaps for sand and oil at my service stations.

I how had a nearly straight route across the map, East to West.  I had my AI build 40 stations.  My original RR

had 4 stations.  The main line now had 19 operating stations.  I built 3 more service stations for a total of 47.

The other AI that I stated bought elec. Locomotives with its Electric Loco manager.

One of the new AIs to start up I used to build the electric track for me. 

I think it was in debt 6 million dollars when it was done.  So I gave it two routes. 

One was my good milk route and the other was a cotton and wool route.  I also had it haul mail and

passengers back to a small city close to the cotton fields to keep it alive. 

I was able to build most of my no stopping crossing near Denver. 

I was able to add room for two IA feeder lines to cross through without stopping as well. 

One fed my steel mill with coal and Iron.  It had the Iron manager which will help it stay alive.

Another AI has the stock manager.  I take control of it when buying stock.

There are 8 AIs that started, not counting my two that I started. 

One of these new AIs chairmen owns all his stock.  the other 7 I was able buy a 51% of the stock.

I then took control and had each float 2 to 4  bonds.  I then had the AI use this money to buy all of its' unsold stock.

I then sold my stock in that AI until I owned one share more than other Chairmen owned in that company.

I renamed AI companies where the chairmen had a big interest in the company.  I called them feeder lines. 

(No merging)    I named all of the stations for the demand industries at each station.

I have 8 locomotives and can afford two more.  I'm hauling a lot of mail since it still has a fairly high value.

If the good lord sends more rain, tomorrow, I will fire up my Electric Locos

and see how successful my management is. 

     

Posted

Well heck  :-X    I said a margin call is not likely.  That I never had one on this map.

Well I can't say that anymore.

When you own stock in 10 RailRoads, a margin call is a destroyer.

This time I never made it to the end of the 1st year.

The bonds I sold to Freddie, well Freddie bundled them with a few good bonds and resold them to banks all over the world.

Now our government is bailing out the banks and wants me to return the money I received.

I said no, HA HA and they said: margin call.  Not even the bail out helped me.  I went belly up.

Well, I went back to a saved game at 7 months and this time I will be more careful. 

I used an AI to merge two of the other AIs to reduce my margin.  These AIs didn't own much of their own stock.  I then restarted the game.  3 more AIs started up.  I was able to take control of all three and had them buy back all their unsold stock.  Margin looked much better this time.  I ran until the end of the year. Bought some electric locomotives, 1045s. I maxed out the bonds for one of the older AIs and used its' money to finished double tracking my RR with electric track.  This AI owned ABOUT 48% of its; own stock.  This chairman is wealthy.  I won't be merging him any time soon.  Still have only one RR that I don't control.  Its' chairman extended its' track to another city going around my station blockades in other cities that were closer to it.  At least it had to use more money to do this.  But the longer runs will make it wealthy again.

Another day awaits me with plans, I'm sure,  to socialize me. 

Well they did it today but tomorrow I will see how smart they are.

:O  :O  :O  :O  :O  :O  ;) 

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

I copied the Economy Map up to this post.

It is the same map that is at the other end of this thread. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tried some different play styles.

My goal is to win this map in seven years.

I just completed the 6th year.  Completed all but one of the requirements for Gold.

I have about 70% of what I need for the Company Book Value requirement.

CBV has alway been fairly easy to achieve;  So in the 5th year I merged all but three of the AIs I control.  I tried these, mistakes by floating bonds for:

 

1. I used the AI with the Station Building manager to build about 50% of all AI

    stations on the map to block a new AI startup from building at these locations. 

2. I used 2 AI RRs with a loco. buying manager to each buy about 40 locomotives.

3. I use 2 AI RRs with a track manager to build large feeder track networks,

    in mountainous areas, along the Mississippi or in the Northern area.

I found it difficult to balance these activities so that each AI stayed profitable.

The fix:  I had built up a lot of cash and used it buy back all of my bonds.

I started to merged the AIs, paid off their bonds as I went.

This activity caused more AIs to start up.  Three owned all their stock.

There were still 3 AIs under my control.  I ran until year 6.

My 3 AIs were not very profitable and were not able to buy more locos to take over the hauling of low value cargo.  After my merging activity I also had too many locos hauling low value cargo and my profits dropped off sharply.

Tycoon Solution:  I start another AI.  I gave it a maximum amount of money so it could merge the last 3 AIs I controlled.  After the merging I rerouted all their locomotives and bought 25 more that I left without a route. 

Still on pause, I then changed to my parent company and looked for my trains that were hauling low value cargo.  I deleted stations from these routes so these trains could only haul high value cargo.

As I run the map, I plan to pause and route the extra AI locos to haul my low value cargo creating high value cargo to keep my trains running full.  I expect to retire some of my extra locos and I had already removed some of my track and stations no longer needed to further reduce costs.

If all works out,  I will earn the money I need to win Gold by the end of the seventh year.

Economy_map_18.zip

Posted

I copied the Economy Map up to this post.

It is the same map that is at the other end of this thread. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tried some different play styles.

My goal is to win this map in seven years.

I just completed the 6th year.  Completed all but one of the requirements for Gold.

I have about 70% of what I need for the Company Book Value requirement.

CBV has alway been fairly easy to achieve;  So in the 5th year I merged all but three of the AIs I control.  I tried these, mistakes by floating bonds for:

 

1. I used the AI with the Station Building manager to build about 50% of all AI

    stations on the map to block a new AI startup from building at these locations. 

2. I used 2 AI RRs with a loco. buying manager to each buy about 40 locomotives.

3. I use 2 AI RRs with a track manager to build large feeder track networks,

    in mountainous areas, along the Mississippi or in the Northern area.

I found it difficult to balance these activities so that each AI stayed profitable.

The fix:  I had built up a lot of cash and used it buy back all of my bonds.

I started to merged the AIs, paid off their bonds as I went.

This activity caused more AIs to start up.  Three owned all their stock.

There were still 3 AIs under my control.  I ran until year 6.

My 3 AIs were not very profitable and were not able to buy more locos to take over the hauling of low value cargo.  After my merging activity I also had too many locos hauling low value cargo and my profits dropped off sharply.

Tycoon Solution:  I start another AI.  I gave it a maximum amount of money so it could merge the last 3 AIs I controlled.  After the merging I rerouted all their locomotives and bought 25 more that I left without a route. 

Still on pause, I then changed to my parent company and looked for my trains that were hauling low value cargo.  I deleted stations from these routes so these trains could only haul high value cargo.

As I run the map, I plan to pause and route the extra AI locos to haul my low value cargo creating high value cargo to keep my trains running full.  I expect to retire some of my extra locos and I had already removed some of my track and stations no longer needed to further reduce costs.

If all works out,  I will earn the money I need to win Gold by the end of the seventh year.

Posted

Well heck!  It took 8 1/2 years to win gold on the Economy Map.  I did micro manage the trains.

The Gold seemed to come about 2 months late.  It could be the negative numbers that show up,

but are not really negative for most of the normal game math.

I never could get enough AI low value hauls from my one AI RR that I started too late.

The AI didn't make enough money to buy more locos to do all of these hauls.

I did not retire any of my locos, as I needed them to haul low value cargo that the AI left behind.

I did upgrade every one of my locos to the 1020 electric, I think it was mid year 7.

I didn't buy any extra industry.  Many were gushing cash.  Only bought the 3 services for the stations.  None of the extra additions.  I may have acquired  some extras when I merged the AIs.

End of dialog for the Economy Map.

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

I new bug:  I'm not sure how it works.

I was able to float 30 bonds for 15 million in debt for the only AI I control.

I had merged 2 or 3 other AI companies with this AI.  Each carried a few bonds.

In total these bonds together with my controlled AI's bonds totaled 10 million.

The AI paid off one bond on its' own.  I floated another bond bring it back up to 10 million in bonds.

I hit float a bond again by mistake, intending to sell some stock.  I got another bond for 10.5 million.

So I continued to float bonds until the AI now owns 15 million in bonds. 

Tell me what happened?  Maybe it was the Socialism I injected into this map.

Posted

Interesting.  I know some  kind of bug is causing the problem.

PopTop built the RT3 engine because they wanted more 3D capability and the RT2 engine code had been maxed out.

The bugs in the RT2 engine can be exploited and I enjoy using these bugs in my maps.

In my Apple map I tried to add another Manager and locked the game up so tight,  it took help from PopTop to save it.

I've been gone a lot so haven't played past buying those 30 bonds. 

I think I'll buy some more bonds for the AI  to see how deep in debt I can go.

I don't remember of the AI's bonds carry an average negative interest rate or not.

If they do, then a negative balance may foul up the game math in some way.

I know merging an AI with bond debt, can take my company above 10 million in debt and

anything over ten million can't be repaid, at least by my company.

Posted

I maxed out my AIs bonds at 17 million.  That would be about right as the two AIs that it merged had bonds that totaled about 7 million.  What I did not know was I could still float a total of 10 million in bonds for an AI company even though its' merged companies came with bond debts.  Now I'll have to find out if an AI company can pay off 17 million in bond debt.

I already know I can't pay off a merged company's bonds if my own RR did the merging.  It might be different for an AI.

The AI will pay off bond debt while the game is running and when not under my control.   

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Meh. 'Illegals' and Acorn running around in the 19th century seems more like a wacky conservative scenario than a socialist one. It's hard for me to see why the period unionizers & concerns about the Chinese / Polish / Irish / Italians / et al. don't fit the exact same bill. The 'Illegal' one is especially hard to understand since right now in the scenario Mexico -doesn't exist-.

Played through it: the AI who always starts his own fully controlled company somehow managed to interrupt my electric rail into California, requiring me to break out the hex editor on the saved game to shift his stock to me so I could merge and bulldoze it. Afterwards went like a breeze until I realized I couldn't repay the debt accumulated from other companies. Shifted the 100s of millions the company was making to the dividend, but could only start a fully controlled company worth $100m tops, so I did a second one and merged them only to remember there's a haul requirement. Still had a decade+ to go, but meh... can do without relaying all that track.

Personally, even keeping the scenario topical, the premise doesn't fit. Socialists would simply control all the companies from the beginning; if it's socialism lite (populist oligarchy) and there's stock market manipulation, you'd have to share the wealth around (events bumping up overhead in exchange for political favors and access; is it even possible to require the AI also be rich?) and no one would be allowed to exempt himself by keeping his railroad privately owned (-including the player-: unless the rails are fully nationalized, there should be antitrust events breaking the company up into regional companies; maybe the player gets to choose which region to stay in control of and loses control of the track in the other states to the AI.)

Debt should be a -good- thing. I see that the AI companies are rewarded for bankruptcy, which is a good start, but massive, unservicable debt (which is currently a scenario-killer) should be one of the goal requirements. The player should -have- to figure out a way to accumulate 200m or so in debt. The whole point of the way financial conglomerates have been acting for the last few decades has been using political connections to shift risk onto the taxpayer and profit into their own pockets. If their debt doesn't affect everyone else, they might allow the company to fail, but if everyone's already bought into them, society has no choice but to bail them out.

Should also be more protectionist jingoism (possibly affecting ability of the player to invest south of the border; I think you could make Mexican factories more profitable, but at the same time use events to punish the players for taking advantage using an American-incorporated company (ie, one with track or industry north of the border.))

Posted

Thanks for the feed back.  I did have a lot more dialog together with events; But felt it made the map too complicated.

So I removed a lot of what I had started in the first versions. 

You comments are Interesting.  It helps me plan for future maps. 

Economy Map:

I alway started a 2nd AI at the game startup to get a leg up on the New start up AIs.  I used it or the other AI to place some blocking stations, depending upon which one gets the best station building manager.

I also buy as much of the stock as possible so I can sell some to gain any needed cash later on without losing control.

I had only one game where I had only one AI chairmen that owned all his stock.

Normally I had two or three AIs that I couldn't control.

I goofed more then once in accumulating too much debt.  I learned to save often.

The hardest part after playing the game a doz. times, was routing the trains so I didn't have to micro manage them.

About half of my routes had to be adjusted one or twice. 

Mexico city area did import cargo into the US.  The Low value of some US cargo represented the lower wages of illegal workers.  I removed the higher Tax events since they won't really hit hard in real life until 2011.  Although the higher prices of goods is now taking place at least when I buy food, etc. today.

I enjoy the economics of a map.  If I didn't,  I probably wouldn't have played the game as many times as I did.

Thanks again for the review.

PS:  An AI RR can merge another AI with debt yet still take out another 20 bonds.  My AI's debt doesn't count against my RR for a win.  Only the debt of my RR counts against me. 

Posted

@Normally I had two or three AIs that I couldn't control.

There's always one who does it right off the bat. The others, it's just a matter of destroying their companies before they can build up any equity. But again, it seems weird to me. Unless you can find a way to mark them as nationalized (which would fit their horrid planning and track-laying skills,) having autonomous companies seems to buck the wallowing-in-socialism the game seems geared towards. Atlas can shrug, but he can't move the rails he already laid or keep them out of public hands if the government has a mind to them.

@I goofed more then once in accumulating too much debt.

@My AI's debt doesn't count against my RR for a win.  Only the debt of my RR counts against me.

Again, should be more of a feature than a bug. Unless you present it more as fending off the Commies, there's no reason to keep your company books clean. In an Enron scenario, the daughter companies eventually explode so badly they bring down the mother; that can't happen in-game. In a Taggart Transcontinental scenario, you may have full ownership of your own rail (and somehow won the PR battle keep it yours,) but the market should be closed: you'd be fighting the moochers, looters, and liars, not buying them out. (Appropriate events as they drown in their own overhead and mismanagement, though.) Taking advantage of the government trough through a subsidiary would seem to offend her moral rectitude.

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