Editor Limits

[jeffryfisher]

I am trying to develop a greatly elaborated United States map chock full of real history. I just discovered the hard way that the editor limits me to 31 territories (silly me, I was going to display all 50 states plus parts of Canada and Mexico). I can recover by organizing the game regionally with some real historical US territories.

However, now I am worried. I had planned to "event" every president, panic, business-policy, war, and a few other things. Is there a limit on the number of events? I've tried searching online, but I haven't found an answer yet. If I'm not told, then I will prioritize and forge ahead until I hit the wall.

BTW, have any of you run into performance problems with loads of events, especially those checked monthly? I am hoping that starting triggers with "GameYearMonth=..." will expedite most of mine. However, if playtesting reveals problems, then I will move as many of mine as possible to annual checking (presidents will be elected and take office on Jan 1, not NOV + APR).

If there are old or sticky threads on scenario building, please point. I've read and searched a little here, but I'm sure I haven't found all of the paydirt yet.

[Gwizz]

Too many events, testing close together, will slow the game.  Try to limit the number of tests for each event.

Remember the tests for one event could be for every territory, every company and every chairmen plus all the effects.

The biggest limit is the 16 variables.  There are ways to reuse the same variable, over and over again.

Not much of a limit on the number of events, I've had a huge list of events.  I forget what the number allowed is.

Using an event for only a dialog has normally one time test and takes up little room in your memory.

It is many events trying to test at the same time that slows the computer down, even crashing the game.

[jeffryfisher]

Too many events, testing close together, will slow the game.

Aha, so early in the game, before any of my one-times have fired, it might get bogged down if I have lots of month-specific events, which must be tested every month.

Try to limit the number of tests for each event. Remember the tests for one event could be for every territory, every company and every chairman

Right, each "every" is another nested loop. As an experienced programmer and relational database engineer, I can see the problem and try to avoid it. I've looked through all of the scenarios packaged with the platinum edition, so I now comprehend how each "every" functions (I think).

I see much misuse in player-submitted scenarios. I wonder why one would test against "all territories" and then write out a test for territoryid equals one static number. Is there a problem with using the territoryid box in the dialog?

I've seen a similar puzzle with SP versus MP. A test was set to fire on "single and multi" (radio button), but the trigger included an explicit not-multiplayer. Have people encountered bugs using the single/multi radio buttons?

The biggest limit is the 16 variables.

There are 16 variable names. However, there are four per player, four per territory, and four per company. I'm sure that we clever people could find ways to design events to make use of, f'rinstance, territory variables that certain known territories don't need. Just "check against territories", put a carefully chosen territory ID in the box, and voila, you have four more game vars to use for that event.

In fact, if you have a sub-territory (mapped) for one particular event (or event sequence), then using that territory's vars would be better than clobbering game vars. I'm thinking of scattered cells, invisibly mapped to one of the "normal" territories, used to inflict war-damage or earthquake damage etc. Just make sure that events operating on "all territories" only operate on visible ones.

Not much of a limit on the number of events, I've had a huge list of events.  I forget what the number allowed is.

Well, with 30 presidents to "elect",  and with multiple historical events in each administration, and with a few other bells and whistles, I figure to go over 100. I'll try to avoid nested loops as much as possible (e.g. I'll try the territory ID box for single territory events).

[Gwizz]

"Have people encountered bugs using the single/multi radio buttons?"

No more then normal.  It just add extra testing.

Remember that some variables can be specific.

Only the gave variable can be used for everything.

Simple events can sometimes use any variable of the four types.

I was taught to write down the sequence of events on paper before adding them to the editor.

Later I found using a spread sheet was easier, as I could sort the events and reuse events

in a new sequence from another event.  It was a lot easier to find a mistake.

Too bad the spread sheet was nor transferable to the editor in one attachment.

[jeffryfisher]

Only the game variable can be used for everything.

Too bad the spread sheet was nor transferable to the editor in one attachment.

Each time you pretend to check one chosen territory, then you should gain access to that territory's 4 variables even if you don't do anything to the territory itself. In essence, as long as the territory's variables are not mangled by some other event affecting all territories, you should be able to hijack a select territory's vars and treat them like game vars.

You're allowed 31 territories in a scenario. If you don't need them all, then you have each surplus territory's set of four vars to play with. You could name each "territory" after an event sequence and use its vars for that sequence of events without giving the territory any cells on the map. However, one limitation is that such a series would not be able to operate on "real" territories while using the fake territory's vars.

As for spreadsheets, the editor needs to be able to export and import events (both one at a time and all at once). I suggest tab-delimited text, importable into spreadsheets. XML would be readable and enable transfer between scenarios, but it would less usable elsewhere.

Well, I'm off to map the Gadsden Purchase, the West Virginia counter secession and some other odds and ends. I'll eventually have something to test (and then play).

[Gwizz]

Good luck on your map.  Sounds interesting.

When I use a variable more than once I add an event starting date

and when the event is no longer needed, an ending date that encludes resetting

the variable to 1 or -1 ready to be used again. 

Let me know if you are able to transfer a spread sheet event list to the RRT2 editor.

I've never tried to do this. 

[jeffryfisher]

Let me know if you are able to transfer a spread sheet event list to the RRT2 editor.

I've never tried to do this.

Oops, in that respect, my "should" meant that I think future development of the game should add such a feature. Heck, someone should add copy-paste. While they're at it, a set of drop-down menus for inserting variables into triggers would be nice too.

[Hawk]

I take it you haven't experienced RT3 yet?  ;)

[jeffryfisher]

No, I haven't played RRT3. I read the description on the official site, was dis-heartened by some intolerable changes, and decided that I wouldn't buy it.

After reading several reviews, I not only stand by that decision, but now consider RRT3 to be a game design blind alley (though the underlying programming might be salvageable).

It wouldn't be the first misstep in the franchise. I can vaguely recall something like RRT+ that I played once before setting it aside and going back to Sid Meyer's original.

Future development of the game design should stem from RRT2 Platinum, even if RRT3's engine must be elaborated to make it look that way.

BTW, I saw a wish list of future features on a web site that I found at about the same time I found this forum (probably because they were linked). Is there a thread for such wishing? If not, we should make one and make it sticky.

[Gwizz]

I was a beta tester for RRT3.

I was irritated by the action of the power people who chopped many of the RRT3 features

to get the game out of the door quicker.  To me it was like selling a car without wheels, seats or

lights.  Even though I enjoyed making many maps for RRT3, I did not enjoy playing the game.

I think the the new modifications have improved the game.  My plans are to complete the RRT2

map I'm now working on, then giving myself enough time to give the new version a good

try to see how it plays.  I would have started before but I've been busy and

the new version seems a bit complicated with a steeper learning curve. 

It may turn out to be a very different game from what I expect it to be.

I know many hours were put into the game update by some dedicated people. 

[Hawk]

A few of the members at my forum have released a new version of RT3 called Trainmaster - Expert Edition. It's a bit harder to play but interesting.

There's also a version available at my forum; Version 1.06, also created by some forum members.

Both are based on RT3 V-1.05 but both do offer a bit more, not to mention the numerous extras available for RT3 at my site. Rollingstock, buildings, etc.

For the record, I wouldn't expect any new versions from the original creators since they're no longer in business.