4 different questions

[douglascaixeta]

Hi fellows,

I have some questions:

1. The mail: seems that if I don't deliver they stop send mail to the station, and if I deliver they increase the amount of mail. Is that true? If the mail is always late, the demand/offer decrease?

2. An industry have a demand. I can see this demand on the station screen. For example, a Paper industry have a demand of 4 loads of pulpwood. I know that if I deliver more than 4 loads, it will produce more than 4 loads of paper. I can deliver 100 and it will produce 100 of loads of paper, almost instantaneously. But what about the profit of the industry? I reach $73.000 of profit in my paper industry, then I double the amount of pulpwood, and of course the deliver of paper, and the profit was still the same. There is like the best amount of loads that an industry can process to reach the maximum profit?

3. When I build in my stations things like a Hotel, a maintenance house, there are costs for that? I mean, costs to maintain those buildings. Because after a while I have money to put a maintenance house on all my stations, even if I don't need it. But because I have money, I already build with the maintenance house, just to don't have to worry about it. My costs (monthly, yearly) will increase or I just pay the cost of the hotel, or the maintenance house?

4. I have the following route (all with 6 loads)

LOGS - LUMBER - CITY 1 - CITY 2

One city requires 4 loads of lumber. I want that when the train deliver to the city 1, it will deliver 4 loads, and the rest 2 will deliver to city 2. I put red flags all over the route, and still, the train is always empty when it goes to city 2.

Thanks!

Using RT2 Gold Edition 1.54c

[thomasjordan]

1.  Yes.  If you are not picking a cargo up at a station, it's rate of production either decreases or the amount of time it remains at the station available for pick up decreases.  Either way, the cargo isn't there.  Once you start picking up a cargo, more of it will be available at that station in the future.

2.  Industry profits are funny.  There does seem to be some ideal amount of cargo to deliver to an industry.  Less than that, and the industry produces less profit.  More than that, and it doesn't produce additional profit.  You also need to deliver the item produced by the industry to a station.  That earns more profit than just delivering a cargo to the industry but not hauling off the item the industry produced.

3.  Yes, overhead costs do go up for every item that you build at a station.  Those items, such as hotels, will normally pay for themselves very, very quickly, increasing your profit.  Unless money is really scarce, you should build the items at the station that your trains can use.

4.  You cannot control this.  If a cargo is demanded at a station, all of that cargo that is on the train will be delivered to that station.  The only thing you could do would be to have two trains.  Once has four cars that go to station #1, while the second has two cars that goes to station #2.  I believe you can choose settings that will prevent ANY of the cargo from being delivered to station #1, but if any cargo is delivered, all of the cargo will be delivered.

[douglascaixeta]

Hi thomasjordan,

Thank you very much for the quickly reply.

The red flags will be much more useful if we could use to control the demand. They are paying almost anything for my lumber, cause there is a lot.

And for the train go back to the logs, it pass through the city 2, so waste of fuel if I put 2 trains.

[Gwizz]

I sometimes I use one loco to deliver the logs to the mill on a red flag, then back for more logs.

I would then use a second loco to deliver lumber first to one city then return for a second load to go to the other city.

It would be nice if we could specify how may cars to unload at a given station.  But there is no way to do that in RT2

[douglascaixeta]

Hi Gwizz,

What is the point of deliver logs to the mill in a red flag? It will sell all loads anyway, right?

[Gwizz]

You are correct.  This is just my style. 

As I sometimes will try to haul other cargos with the logs and the red flag will hold these other cargos from being sold at a station with no demand.  I try to not have more than two log cars per each train to get the highest price at the mill.  Hauling other cargos and drop-shipping this extra cargo will cost a bit more, for waiting time at a station, then holding this other cargo on a train.  Cargo held on the train, to be sold later along the route and will loose value at a slower rate.  I forget sometimes when there may not be other demands for this extra cargo on the train route.  So I often use drop shipping with red flags so this extra cargo can be held at a station and picked up and delivered by another train to where there is high demand.  Of course cargo drop shipped at a station will loose value as it waits to be picked up, so it needs to be picked up quickly for maximum value.

[douglascaixeta]

Thanks for the tips.

Just one more question: there is a maximum cargo that a train can carry?

Is it a problem to put a train with 6 loads of iron, for example?

How can I know the maximum cargo to carry for each train?

[Gwizz]

Each locomotive can carry a big load but the heaver the load the slower the locomotive.  For a mainline train, I try to match the load so that all trains travel at about the same speed.  On a spur this is less important, but the spur line locos should be able to deliver cargo for the main line train to pick up without causing the mainline train to wait. 

Each car has an empty car weight and a loaded car weight.  6 coal cars can be a heavy load of around 300 tons. A loaded iron car weights less than a coal car.

You can adjust scale proportionally for weight, but I no longer bother to doing this. 

A caboose's weight slows a train .  I will some time use an empty log car as a caboose to reduce train weight for a faster return haul.  I make the brakeman ride in the cab.

When I send a locomotive back with no cars, it will run faster, but the chance for a break down or a crash is greater for the rest of the locomotive's life.

Any car can act like a caboose and the log car weights less than a caboose.

[douglascaixeta]

Thanks again.

I read that a caboose can decrease breakdowns by 25% and robberies by 75%. But when my train is full, I still need a caboose? And what is the reason for that? I mean, in reality. Why a train cannot run without any weight?

[Gwizz]

Any car will act as a caboose to reduce breakdowns and robberies. 

As far as realities is concerned, it is just the way the game was coded by the designers.

Some players will use a caboose at the end of the train because that was the common method in real life for a given time period.

 

[thomasjordan]

I don't use a caboose with passengers trains.

I do use a caboose with freight trains up until about 1990, which is when the railroads starting replacing cabeese with end-of-train-devices, electronic instruments that signal the cab if anything goes wrong with the train.

Gwizz, I didn't know about the empty training having a greater maintenance problem, or that any car (empty or full?) served the purpose of a caboose.  You sure about those two?

[Gwizz]

When I was looking at the RT2 engine as a business educational tool, I did a lot of testing with PopTops help. 

If my memory is serving me correctly, a loco does better if it is pulling a car than not, except for speed.  Running light it is faster but has more chance for a breakdown or being robbed.  The caboose or any car protects the loco from breakdowns and robberies. PopTop simply didn't limit this feature to only the caboose in the coding.

The weight of a car does reduce the loco's speed.  An empty log car has less weight than any other car.  So it would limit the speed the least.

[Superchief]

Any car will act as a caboose to reduce breakdowns and robberies. 

As far as realities is concerned, it is just the way the game was coded by the designers.

Some players will use a caboose at the end of the train because that was the common method in real life for a given time period.

 

Wait... any car can be used as a caboose???  Where did you learn that? In all my years of playing this game this is the first I have heard of it!!

[TheDS]

I have never seen a train get robbed that had no passengers or mail on it. Same for an train with all empty P/M cars.

(This would also mean you should never mix P/M with other cargo.)

Also, it's been my experience that industries produce at a fairly steady rate, with modifications based on economy and if it can be "fed", like cattle being fed grain. There may be a slight variation in there too, but generally, they're as steady as the economic conditions allow. When it comes to Mail, the production rate is low, and it just seems to pop up at random times because of that. I've never done it, but I'd bet that if you dedicated a train to it and red-lighted it (to load it all the way), you'd have a fairly regular-running train. The payoff is so small and the pickup window is too, so I don't usually bother with it; I get so much more out of passengers and regular freight.

[thomasjordan]

This depends on the map, of course.

I like a train with one mail car, a dining car, and two passenger cars, set to wait for 1/2 full, plying back and forth between two stations. Mail has a high payoff, if it's delivered quickly.

[gohawks]

I have never seen a train get robbed that had no passengers or mail on it. Same for an train with all empty P/M cars.

(This would also mean you should never mix P/M with other cargo.)

Only passenger and mail cars get robbed, so if you have only cargo or empty p/m cars the train doesn't get robbed.  There may be reasons I don't know for not mixing cargo and p/m, but robbery isn't one of them.

[Gwizz]

Only passenger and mail cars get robbed

  By gohawks

I know it doesn't make sense.  A locomotive running light without any cars shouldn't be subject to being robbed.

The game instructions says "...a caboose reduces the chance of being robbed....".

It was not common in early times for passenger/mail trains to use a caboose. 

Freights trains always used a caboose until more modern times or during very early times.

I believe it was a PopTop employee who told me that any car could act as a caboose to reduce robberies. 

Before that I never noticed a difference, since I never used a caboose on a passenger/mail/freight train except when running the locomotive without any cars. 

Nor, did I notice a reduction in robberies, if a caboose was used on a passenger/mail train,

since I never put a caboose on any passenger/mail or freight train to find out. 

The way I reduced robberies, for replays of a map, was to turn off robberies in the editor.

   

[TheDS]

Ok, here's my experience, and a way you can test if you'd like.

Only a train that has a loaded passenger or mail car can be robbed. You can test by going into the editor and setting robberies to insane levels, use a cheat code to give yourself a bunch of money, and then start running a ton of trains. Count the number of robberies in a given amount of time (probably 5 years is enough to give a good statistical balance), then add a caboose and count. It's POSSIBLE that the number of p/m cars could affect the chances of robberies, so there's something else to test for.

Breakdowns are affected by the load. The more the load, the higher the breakdown chance. This gets really noticeable when going up a steep hill. Theoretically, since a caboose adds weight, it should increase breakdown chances, but since they specifically say it reduces them, I would assume it does, but I don't use cabooses. Again, you can set up your scenario and run a bunch of unreliable trains and count the number of breakdowns, then add cabooses (cabeese?) and count again. You'll probably need a good 5 years or so to run this for statistical balancing purposes.

So, if you run JUST an engine, there's no chance of being robbed, and the chances of breakdown are small. If you throw a caboose on it, you slow it down a little, but you should also reduce its already small chances of breakdown. (No load means unlikely to break down.)

That's my experience. You could read my strategy guide to find out more of my experiences.  ;D

[Gwizz]

You could read my strategy guide to find out more of my experiences

You are welcome to post your guide as an attachment on this thread.

I alway find different ideas and insites interesting.  I'm sure others would as well.

[RSimpkinuk57]

Hi all,

I've been playing off and on for 5-6 years and only just come across this forum. Nice to see there stil is one, and people playing the old game. I'm still on the original game (I got sidetracked into editing some of the maps); I've got RRT2 Platinum ready to go (RRT3 also; I've done just the first scenario to learn the differences) but have gone back to finish the original campaign first.

DouglasCaixeta, re your original question number 2, if a station shows 4 pulpwood cars as a demand that does NOT mean it is asking for 4 loads and no more. I thought that when I started playing but it is a misconception. What it really means is that if you deliver pulpwood you will earn level 4 freight rates.

As I said I've not yet upgraded to when I can use the red flags, but from what I've read the way to deliver 4 loads to A and 2 to B would be to build an extra (small) station OUTSIDE city A; use red flags to drop 2 loads there; take the rest to A, then go back to the small station and pick up the 2 loads again. Or drop the 4 loads at the small station, send the train on to B with whats left, and have a different engine (an old cheap one) shuttle the dropped loads into A. Its what real railroads did with marshalling yards.

regards, Richard

[RSimpkinuk57]

P.S.

The load limit is of course 6 cars (including caboose if used). It may be a bad idea hauling that many on a steep grade with a weak engine, especially if the cars are heavy, but you are always allowed to try; your train cannot go slower than one mph. Which is realistic enough for a fun game that has to simplify and abstract from real life, where for example helper engines would be used to shove trains up steep hills.

I guess the rationale for a caboose reducing robberies is that it is not the car that reduces them, but the armed security guys deemed to be riding inside. Similarly with breakdowns the caboose carries skilled brakesmen giving the engine a smoother journey. Alternatively, the slower running (from carrying the extra weight) substitutes for real-life stops to service axle-boxes etc.

Real life passenger trains did have cabooses until quite recent times. OK (1) I wasn't there and (2) I'm a Brit where we may have done things differently: we called the vehicles "brake vans" for a start. It is just that passenger brake vans looked different from freight ones. In fact they looked just like mail cars, and carried mail too. But if there was no mail or baggage to carry, the brake van still had to stay in the train. Although usually it was not a complete car, just a section at one end of a passenger car.

[Gwizz]

I've not read much on the history of train operation in the UK.

I enjoyed your import.  Thanks.

Concerning your post on using a small station to store cargo and using a small older engine to deliver to the mill, I often do this.

The system that works well for me is to use two small stations for the small mill loco.  One where cars are dropped by a mainline loco, then picked up by a small loco that delivers only one or two cars at a time to a small mill station that is not on the main line.  The mill would produce cargo that shows up at the big mainline station or the small loco could deliver the produced cargo back to the small mainline station if it is your loco..

It also works well to have an AI RR or one of its' locos haul to the mill and return empty.  No caboose (brake van) is used returning to the small mainline station.  The AI will change the caboose to a higher value cargo to haul back if one is available.  The AI loco will seldom stop one of your mainline trains while on your mainline.  But, if it is run too far on your mainline track, with lots of your train active on it and it could take a long time to to deliver its' cargo.

Depending on the cargo, normally this is a low value haul and looses money,.  By owning the mill some of the costs can be recovered if enough cargo is hauled.  If an IA is used then I have the AI own the mill to keep it alive.

This is a fun method for me replicating real RR operations.  But, I seldom play this way if I'm playing for a win.

Again, Thanks for your input.