Sarah Palin "Political"

[Gwizz]

I believe Sarah Palin is a different kind of politician, a kind we have not seen for awhile.  She seems to have both integrity and principles and is willing to stand up against corruption and the good old boys club.  I bet she will keep McCain on his toes and walking the straight and narrow.  There may come a time when he will wish he had not picked her as his VP. 

The last election poll I saw had Obama way ahead.  But, polls are so skewed depending upon who takes them;

They have little value. 

The news is full of questions concerning Governor. Palin.  There is also a lot of democratic mud being thrown her way.

So far she has come out squeaky clean. 

The next few weeks are going to be interesting to watch.  (Politics and hurricanes)

[djf01]

I thought you and Hawke might like her. 

I like dropping in at Hawke's every now and then, but I always feel like I'm loading up my shotty, slinging a jug of shine over my shoulder and hiking barefoot up to his log cabin in the Kentucky hills.  I don't know much about Ms Palin, but everything I've heard, read or seen about her so far (which has nothing to do with her political position or skills as an administrator I might add), I start hearing these banjos playing The Ballad of Jed Clampet.

I was a fan of TV show Northern Exposure, and like one of my favourite characters in that show, she really was runner up in the Miss Northwest Passage bueaty pagent.

American elections are nothing if not entertaining.

[Hawk]

I thought you and Hawke might like her. 

I like dropping in at Hawke's every now and then, but I always feel like I'm loading up my shotty, slinging a jug of shine over my shoulder and hiking barefoot up to his log cabin in the Kentucky hills.

...and what's wrong with that?  ;D  I like the Kentucky hills.  ;)

As for Palin, I like her more than I do the other 3.  8)

BTW! It's Hawk, not Hawke.  :D

[thomasjordan]

Jed Clampett was a pretty good guy.

Black powder is the only way to shoot.

Moonshine will put hair on your toenails.

A Super Wal-Mart is a really fine shopping mall, superior to International Plaza in Tampa or Galleria in Houston.

And a few of us even graduated first grade (and went on to earn a Ph.D.).

Personally, I like Palin.  The ideal team for me would be Jindal (I'm a resident of Louisiana, so I'm obviously biased) and Palin.  Two governors who have actually read the Constitution and are attempting to govern accordingly.

What's so funny about all of this is the Democrat guy is starting to act like he's running for VICE PRESIDENT, comparing his creditentials to hers.  The amount of trashing the far left (Daily Kos, Moveon.org) are directing against her shows they are afraid of her.  I like a scared opponent.  Those kind make mistakes.

[djf01]

As for Palin, I like her more than I do the other 3.  8)

I might not be able to spell, but I got that one right!

It's a no brainer I suppose.  After all, she roots and she shoots. - what more could you want?

...and what's wrong with that?  Grin  I like the Kentucky hills.  Wink

Absolutely nothing.  And if I could chose anyone on earth to hike barefoot into the hills to share a jug of shine with, it'd be Sarah Palin!

[Hawk]

I might not be able to spell, but I got that one right!

???

[maddog]

She seems to have both integrity and principles

As long as she says nothing about family values. She lost the moral authority on that one when her daughter got pregnant at 17.

The next few weeks are going to be interesting to watch.

I agree. It will really depend on what she says and if she can stay in the background (and if the media will let her) and let John McCain take the spotlight.

[Gwizz]

Hi, maddog, Glad to see your are still reading.  Everyone is entitled to their view point and should express it.

Having dialog, using an open mind and doing individual research, is the way we learn. 

I Listened to Sarah Palin last night.  Her talk was outstanding

She didn't talk much about what McCain was planning to do.  That is McCain's job at this point in time.

I was glad that the TelePrompTer stopped working.  It let the speakers use their own words. 

Palin is smart and an excellent speaker.  It is no wonder how fast she climbed the political ladder as she went against the corruption In Alaskan politics.  Both parties have corruption.  We need to chip away at it.

I believe Palin did something even more important for her talk for this point in time.

She answered the lies and mud being thrown at her and her family and did it in a professional way.

Obama said Palin's kids should not be attacked. (it did hurt him)  But they were attacked in a vicious way.

What is that saying, about not throwing the first stone if the thrower is not without sin.

It is good that fighting back is not something Republicans normally do.  But, I was glad to see the speakers stand up against the mud.

I was on the fence about this election but, unless something changes, I have picked a side and it is not with Obama.

I didn't care much for McCain, but I felt he was the lesser of the evils. 

But now, seeing him go against the elitists that were pitting him against Obama, I believe he was being set up to lose the election.  These same elitists also support Obama to win.  McCain is a rebel and that is one of his positive attribute. 

I heard on the radio that the training Obama received in Chicago was with ACORN.  I don't know much about this group.  I believe this group is a radical organization that works to promote voting fraud.  Chicago is famous for its' fraudulent voting.   The Seattle radicals also practice fraudulent voting.

One last comment:  I heard that MSN is a liberal INTERNET news group.  They ran a poll about Palin's talk.  59% voted it was an excellent talk.  I'll assume most are liberal readers that voted.  That is encouraging.  I went to MSN to vote and could not find the poll this morning.  I guess that is to be expected when the poll goes negative to them.  There are only two or three polls that are middle of the road.  Most lean heavily to the left.

[djf01]

I was on the fence about this election but, unless something changes

And what fence would that be?  The one between Pinochet and Mussolini?

Seriously Gwizz, I don't think I've ever run across anyone expressing more partisan right wing opinions than you.

You are prepared to endorse a candidate no-one outside the readers moose hunter's annual has ever heard of, and at the same time accuse another organisation you know even less about of fostering institutionalised voting fraud.  Is that your idea of being open minded?

Man, I wish I could get you onto www.railpage.com.au - the other train forum I visit where opinions just a touch to left Lenin are derided as right wing herracy :-).

I should make a serious comment about Ms Palin and her selection as Rep VP candidate.

Part of the reason she's been the target of so many jokes is she has/had no national political profile.  If your only source of information about someone is Letterman, what do you expect?

It is obvious that very few people - if any - had her pegged as a likely VP candidate.  If the various reports are right, she wasn't McCain's first choice she, and not anyone else's either.  The fact they had to go to the boon docks to find a compromise candidate with very little experience in politics seems to reflect the contradictions in the requirements of a good Republican candidate: they need to express the views/sentiments of the Republican base, without being associated with the perceived failures of the Bush Administration.

It's an interesting choice to say the least.  The advantages are obvious: she's a woman and would thus appeal to disaffected Clinton voters, and conservative enough to appeal to/motivate the disaffected Republican base (and of course has no voting record to be attacked).  On that basis he should have nominated Condi Rice, after all she's also a woman *and* she's black as well!  Given McCain's age and medical history, I'd have thought a competent but unobtrusive candidate slightly right of McCain (but not too far) would have been the right choice.  Someone like Romney for example.  Someone that while maybe not everyone would prefer, someone who isn't going to make people nervous.  Almost unbelievably, it's made the McCain/Palin ticket look *more* risky than the Dems  (at least to people who are ambivalent about the various political positions - ie swing voters :-)).  To me, it seems to undermine McCain's biggest asset as a candidate: the perception he's a safe choice.

Anyway, perhaps you die hard Republicans might give me some insights into the Dem's VP candidate choice of JB (no idea how to spell his last name).  I thought Obama's choice was a bit odd too.  I was anticipating a swing State Democratic governor, though perhaps they all failed the vetting process :-).

[thomasjordan]

The only comment I will make is that ACORN or its employees has been convicted of voter fraud numerous times.

This was the first of 85,400 hits Google retrieved on a search for "ACORN voter fraud."

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009189

[maddog]

I just watched some of her acceptance speech. I'm not that impressed with her. I wish I could have watched more so I could comment on it but my wife walked into the room and asked me to turn it off. She was just getting to the ugly attacks on Obama in the third video on Youtube when that happened. Maybe tomorrow night or I'll search the 'net for a transcript.

[maddog]

Found a transcipt.... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26535811

The first part of her speech.... She introduced her family, called herself a "community organizer" and attacked the media. Typical Republican and so what.

She got into some interesting ideas on page 3 of the transcript. "But we are expected to govern with integrity, good will, clear convictions, and ... a servant's heart." That one is hard to swallow considering Mr. Bush's administration. She talked about reform in Alaska and taking on special interests and big oil. I don't know if any of it is true but there is Ted "Tubes" Stevens (R, Alaska) who is under corruption investigation and something about an Alaska State Trooper scandal. I'm certain more of that will come out in time for good or bad. She sold a jet and drives to work. Turns out the jet was sold at a loss and not through ebay as she said. I wonder what vehicle she drives? She was against the bridge to nowhere that Ted Stevens wanted but wasn't against it until the US Congress killed it. (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin_part_ii.html) Would that make her for it before she was against it? A flip-flopper just like John Kerry?  :)

On page 4, she speaks about foreign oil and our need to be independent of it. She outlined the problem but her solution of more drilling is a band-aid and a handout to big oil. I thought she "stood up to the special interests, the lobbyists, big oil companies, and the good-ol' boys network" back on page 3. Makes me wonder which it is? It would be nice if there were other ideas than 'drill more'.

Page 5 is the attack on Obama. Claimed he didn't author any legislation which is untrue (see the url above). Attacked Obama as a Democrat for big government. I find this one outrageous! It's been the Republicans who have been enlarging the government spending since the Reagan administration. Lied about Iraq. No American wants to "forfeit" but many of us think it's time to come home. Lied about Obama being willing to meet with the enemies of our country. On terrorism, she lied about "worried that someone won't read them their rights". I hope a civilian court is used to prosecute these terrorists. Let's let the rule of law be done in a civilian court so we, the people, can trust it. Lied about taxes. Republicans have been raising taxes for the last eight years. Hollow words in my ears.

On page 6 she talks about John McCain. How he

[thomasjordan]

Ah, when the best the Daily Kos, Moveon.org and the so-called main steam media can up with is her hair is 20 years out of style, her husband got a DWI 20 years ago, and her teenage daughter is pregnant, you know they are scared.

They tried her disabled son is really her grandson - that smear didn't work.

They tried she has no executive experience - that smear didn't work, either, as she is the only one of the four who actually does have executive experience, as a mayor and a governor.  McCain would come closest, as a commanding officer of a several naval aviation units.  Obama - none.  Bidden - none.

Unlike Obama, she hasn't been running for president within the Chicago political machine her entire adult life.  She doesn't associate with terrorists on a daily basis and owe her political career to them.  She doesn't attend a church every Sunday who's preacher teaches racial hatred, and hatred of the US.  She isn't married to a spouse who hates the US.

In other words, she isn't a phony.

I'd vote for her for President before I'd vote for Obama for President, and she isn't even a candidate for that office.

[Gwizz]

MSNBC is a liberal news site, that too often slants the news.

Much of what you read on MSNBC is either tainted or just wrong.

I suppose Conservative news sites may slant news as well.

I wish you could have heard Palin's and the other talks.  

At least you are searching for truth, which is good.  I was once a liberal when I was younger.  I quit the party in disgust.  I have not been happy with the Republicans as of late.  Like the corrupt Republicans that Palin booted,

we have some that need booting as well from both parties.  It looks like we finally have people who are willing to start chipping away at political corruption.

[maddog]

MSNBC is a liberal news site, that too often slants the news.

Much of what you read on MSNBC is either tainted or just wrong.

Every news organization has a bias. The trick is to know when the punditry is happening. Fox News is complete crap so much so that I had to quit watching it. Here's the link again, as well as a few from other news organizations (including Faux Neus).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26535811

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94258995

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Conventions/story?id=5720910&page=1

http://conservablogs.com/velvethammer/2008/09/03/sarah-palin-speech-rnc-2008-transcript-and-video/

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/03/raw-data-sarah-palin-remarks-at-gop-convention/

At least you are searching for truth, which is good.  I was once a liberal when I was younger.

I'm not liberal and I just slid over 40. :O I would be politically aligned with the libertarians but most of them are insane (i know a few!) so I can't vote for them. When I go to the polls I find myself stuck with two bad choices. I can vote for more taxation, war and loss of personal liberty (Republican) or I can vote for more taxation, useless social programs and protection of my personal liberty (Democrat). In the end I go for the Dems and hold my breath. I can only hope for people like Senator Jim Webb (D, Virginia) to hold the line on spending (yes, there are some conservative Dems.).

[maddog]

Daily Kos, Moveon.org

I've found these sites are on the far left too. I don't even bother to read them anymore.

her teenage daughter is pregnant

The fact that her 17 year old daughter is pregnant is significant. It punches a hole in the "family values" attraction that Palin has.

McCain would come closest, as a commanding officer of a several naval aviation units.  Obama - none.  Bidden - none.

I don't think any of them really can say they have the executive experience.

She doesn't associate with terrorists on a daily basis and owe her political career to them.

That's a bit of a stretch.

She doesn't attend a church every Sunday who's preacher teaches racial hatred, and hatred of the US.

He's not a member anymore. That preacher allowed his own hatred to come out and offended many.

She isn't married to a spouse who hates the US.

I don't think she hates the US. I would believe she's black and angry.

In other words, she isn't a phony.

None of the four are phony. They just approach politics from different ideologies. ...and they're all loose with the facts.

[Hawk]

She didn't say she was a 'community organizer'. She said, and I quote;

I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a "community organizer," except that you have actual responsibilities.

The fact that her 17 year old daughter is pregnant is significant. It punches a hole in the "family values" attraction that Palin has.

By that thinking, I guess it's safe to say that if I had a son, and he was a murderer, I'm a murderer too?  ::)

He's not a member anymore. That preacher allowed his own hatred to come out and offended many.

He was a member for 20 years. I guess that sound bite we've all heard was a one time deal and that type of philosophy was never brought to light in that 20 years Obama was a member.

If I was in Obama's shoes, I would do the same thing he did in an effort to connive folks into thinking I didn't subscribe to that thinking so I could get elected.

None of the four are phony. They just approach politics from different ideologies. ...and they're all loose with the facts.

They're all politicians. You can expect nothing else. Politicians lie. Politicians steal. It's why they joined that circus. It gives them the ability to pursue their crimes in a somewhat legal manner  ;)

[maddog]

She didn't say she was a 'community organizer'. She said, and I quote; "I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a "community organizer," except that you have actual responsibilities."

So.... How's that not a community organizer? I must be missing something here. That's part of what small-town mayors do. Calling meetings. Setting agendas and such. Not that this all that important in the overall picture of things. Probably more semantics than anything else.

By that thinking, I guess it's safe to say that if I had a son, and he was a murderer, I'm a murderer too?  ::)

No, of course it's not. It's about moral authority and good parenting. Remember that the Republicans like to run on the Family Values issues. Teen pregnancy is always bad. To reverse the issue, think about the recent pregnancy of Jamie Lynn Spears. It the same problem but she's considered "Hollywood". For both I ask the question, "Where were the parents?" and "Who's at fault?" That's why I think it's a fair political question. It's unfortunate that a 17 year old girl is in the middle but then again, she did make the choice to be a "woman."

Did that make sense? It has to do with my own personal conservative morals about when it's ok to get pregnant. Not about what to do afterward.

--Ray.

[Hawk]

All the 'proper parenting' in the world isn't going to do much good on a teen in the middle of passion in some cases.

Just because the daughter got pregnant, does that mean that the parents don't hold a high family value?

Not defending Palin, but I personally don't think it's fair to hold a parent accountable for a child's mistake, unless the parent is a no-parent, which we see a lot of in the subsidized housing communities where government hand-outs and drugs are more important than parenting, and in most cases those non-parents have those kids just to receive more government hand-outs. I don't think that is the case here though.

I guess you can see that I believe in some stringent welfare reform  ;D , but that's another issue.

Goes back to my comment in my previous post. It's basically the same thing. Maybe on a much greater scale, but in essence...  ;)

I don't hold much count on the 'guilty by association' way of thinking.

[Gwizz]

When Obama was asked what he did as a 'community organizer'.

He said it didn't amount to much and so he didn't add details to his answer.  He seldom gives details on anything.

From Obama's short answer, Palin was much more involved.  She took a lead in every thing she did.  Character is a gift that just does not turn on or off easily. Character is what a person is made of.

Palin has more quality executive experience than both of the democratic candidates put together.  She took charge by always being the one in charge.  The two democratic Senators did very little other than being present to vote on bills.  Obama too often only voted present without making a decision.  Obama was in charge of one committee, but he never convened the committee. So the committee did nothing and Obama loss his one chance to gain executive experience.  Obama gives nice talks off the TelePrompter, but I don't believe he is honest when he can talk on both sides of an issue, depending upon his audience and with open deception that a good reporter would understand.  But reporters choose to keep their jobs; So only report what they are told to. 

With more than half of marriages failing,  parenting is often lacking.

From the involvement that Sarah Palin had, she was an involved parent.  Her daughter just made a bad decision.

This happens a lot in our society.  Even good kids make mistakes with the best of parents and too many people are just too quick to judge them without knowing the facts. 

   

I was surprised to find out that McCain's wife was so deeply involved with helping people, world wide.

I would be surprised if she was not a big influence in helping make McCain an outstanding president.  She is an executive herself

I was thinking the other day when I was active as a Democrat, it was the old school democrats that I greed with.  McCain is a middle of the road old school democrat. I no longer believe he is under the control of the elitists.   

I just don't believe the radical Democrats that now control most of the Democratic party will keep their promises.  They will only take us down a radical road and toward socialism.   

The two Democratic candidates are the most radical to ever run for the presidency, at least in my life time.

[maddog]

Just because the daughter got pregnant, does that mean that the parents don't hold a high family values?

Not defending Palin, but I personally don't think it's fair to hold a parent accountable for a child's mistake

I'm glad to hear you're not however I do I disagree. I think it's completely appropriate. A parent isn't much of a parent if they abdicate parental responsibility. If that parent is a politician, then that politician lacks the moral authority to represent traditional family values. Think of it this way, if they did hold these values the pregnancy wouldn't have happened in the first place.

I remember when my parents sat me down and scared the living daylights out of me about this. I was told that both they and I would be shamed if it ever happened. Imagine a 14 year old boy hearing that from his parents!  :O Unfortunately, it was also the birds and the bees talk.  :)

I guess you can see that I believe in some stringent welfare reform  ;D , but that's another issue.

I'm right there with you.

I don't hold much count on the 'guilty by association' way of thinking.

I wouldn't call this a 'guilty by association' issue. I think of it as an accountably issue. Simply as people, we have to be accountable to our families first and everything else second. If a child becomes pregnant in our family, we have failed. We are shamed. Children make bad decisions when left on their own and "mistakes" happen. That is a parent's fault.

Should we talk about John McCain's speech now? :)  ...but that would be another thread. :)

--Ray.

[Hawk]

Not much to say about McCain's speech. Just more of the same.

I fell asleep half way through it.  :D

[maddog]

Character is a gift that just does not turn on or off easily. Character is what a person is made of.

I agree. I think that three of the four are of good character. The jury is still out on Palin. There a scandal back home that I want to know more about and I already know the truth about the jet.

Even good kids make mistakes with the best of parents and too many people are just too quick to judge them without knowing the facts.

I don't think you thinking that one all the way through. I know the facts with this one. A child became pregnant. Good kids don't that mistake. :)

   

I was thinking the other day when I was active as a Democrat, it was the old school democrats that I agreed with.

Me too. At the same time though, America as changed and the traditional Democratic power-base (generally working class, unions, farmers) started to disappear because of the world economy. Unfortunately, there's no turning back that clock.

 

I just don't believe the radical Democrats that now control most of the Democratic party will keep their promises.  They will only take us down a radical road and toward socialism.

We can only hope that if they win, the balance of powers will keep that in check. No one wants socialism. It didn't for the the Soviets. On the other side of the coin, I have to admit that after 911, I was more scared of what my government would do to our freedoms and liberties than I was of Al-Qaeda. The (un)Patriot Act is truly a terrible piece of legislation. At one point the writ of habeas corpus had been written away in the Detainee Bill. Luckily, the court fixed that for us but we still have the former.

The two Democratic candidates are the most radical to ever run for the presidency, at least in my life time.

No matter who wins this time. I truly believe the county will be pulled back from falling into the pit fascism. Let's all hope that is the one thing in this thread we can all agree on.

--Ray.

[Hawk]

I agree. I think that three of the four are of good character.

They're all 4 politicians. Good character isn't in their dictionary. You just can't make it in the political arena with good character.

No matter who wins this time. I truly believe the county will be pulled back from falling into the pit fascism. Let's all hope that is the one thing in this thread we can all agree on.

Personally I believe Obama will take us closer to it. Obama's a snake oil salesman. Of the 4, he's the one I trust the least.

BTW!

She sold a jet and drives to work. Turns out the jet was sold at a loss and not through ebay as she said.

According to the copy of her speech, which you linked to in a previous post, she didn't state she sold the jet on EBay. She did elude to it though.

To quote from that speech.

That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay.

She did list it on EBay but it didn't sell for her asking price of 2.5 mil, so she pulled it and sold it through a broker for 2.1 mil. It originally cost 2.7 mil.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/election/2008/09/04/gop-convention-palin-sold-alaska-jet-at-a-loss-and-not-on-ebay/

You thinking that she said she sold it on EBay is exactly what she wanted people to think, but if pushed, she can honestly say she didn't say she sold it on EBay, because she didn't say that.

It's just more of that politician jive talk that we all have to be careful of. They all do it.

[thomasjordan]

Maddog:

While it is politically incorrect to say such a thing, you do know the Facists were socialists, don't you?  They had far more in common with the US far left (Daily Kos crowd) than with anyone on the US right.

There are many things I do not like about the Patriot Act and some of what is going on.  Unlike most people, I know more than a little bit about it.  Since I cannot cite myself (classified sources and methods), I'd suggest you check out www.danielpipes.com.  His site isn't great (the best are pay for view, which I have access to through the school library), but it will provide a decent picture of just what we do face.  And the threat is quite real.  If you are really, really interested about the threat I can provide URLs, but I don't know if you will be able to reach any of them.

My wife and I have three surviving children, all sons.  Two of them are Eagle Scouts, and both of them were the Battalion Commander of their high school ROTC units.  Both of them are doing well.  Our middle son, well, lets just say he's had problems with the law for about the past 15 years and let it go at that.  All three were raised the same.  Two turned out good, and one didn't.  We also had an extremely physically disabled daughter.  She was the Washington State March of Dime Poster Child, and the same for Colorado when we lived there.  She also was a success story, but she passed away during surgery when she was 8-years old, about 20 years ago.  I still miss her very much.

So no, I don't blame a parent for a child's mistake.  If all of Palin's kids were pregnant and doing drugs and in trouble with the law, then I'd see a pattern.  On this one I agree with Hawk.

Rob