[INFO] Dune 2 half damage bug/tip, plus question on fremen/sarduakar

[javichal]

Hi guys. Dune2 is a game that I've rediscovered the past few days after playing it a long long time ago. I've been doing actual "field" testing of the units (I didn't know about the different unit/save editors until recently, after I've already mapped out most of the damage/hit points!) and here's something I haven't seen mentioned in the various helpfiles/walkthroughs about the game.

Apparently, units sometimes only do half damage vs other units (buildings seem to always take full damage). It's dependent mostly on the unit's position relative to the target, and occasionally on the current game speed. For example, a quad's attack damage is like the following:

---F---

-HHFHH-

-HHFHH-

HHHUHHH

-HFFFH-

-HFFFH-

---F---

where U is the location of the quad, F means full damage if the target is in that square, and H means half damage if the target is in that square. Many units do full damage straight up or down, full damage to the squares adjacent to straight down, and half damage to other squares. So in unit vs unit combat, you should move your units one square to the left/right of any square above the enemy unit, so that you're doing full damage to them but they're doing half damage to you. The advantages aren't inconsequential; an Ordos raider trike can beat a quad in this way, and a siege tank can beat a Devastator this way as well. For equal units that fire twice at full health (i.e. quad, siege tank, etc.), your unit ends up with about 60% of its hp when the other unit dies, because the unit only fires once when below half health. Many times, it's better to move to this better position even if it means taking an extra shot or two. The half damage rounds down, so a quad (normally 7 damage) only does 3 damage if its damage is halved.

Also, when troopers fire their rockets, they only do 4 (full) damage, compared with 5 (full) damage if they're using cannons, so it's actually better to stay away. Of course, if you're in a square where they're only doing half damage, they only do 2 damage either way (rockets seem to do full damage in the vertical, horizontal, and diagonal directions, but half damage in the other squares).

I'm wondering about the fremen and sarduakar though. Are they actually stronger than a regular WOR trooper or are they the same? From my testing, it would seem to indicate that they're the same, but I don't know if this is because I'm using a modded version.

[MrFlibble]

A very interesting observation, javichal, - in fact, I've also noticed this phenomenon. I wonder what causes it, though, maybe it's a side effect of the mechanic that defines projectile interaction with moving targets (in that targets on the move might be only slightly hit by a slower projectile, as opposed to receiving full damage when standing)?

I'm wondering about the fremen and sarduakar though. Are they actually stronger than a regular WOR trooper or are they the same? From my testing, it would seem to indicate that they're the same, but I don't know if this is because I'm using a modded version.

AFAIK they are all the same regular Troopers. BTW, what kind of modded version are you using? I'm kinda interested in different versions of Dune 2 out there :) (I guess you're talking about Super Dune 2 though)

[javichal]

I would guess that it's because the projectile isn't at exactly the same spot as the target when it detonates, causing it to register as half damage rather than full damage. When I do my testing, the target (and shooter) are both stationary, but occasionally the results are different if I change the speed, so the projectile might move to slightly different locations at different game speeds.

It would be somewhat disappointing if the Sarduakar and Fremen are the same as regular troopers, considering how the game helpfiles make them out to be elite units. I used to run them over when they drop because I figured they might be too hard to take out normally.

[MrFlibble]

In fact, there are special sidebar icons for the Sardaukar and Fremen troopers in the game files, and there's a report of those icons being used in the game for the respective units, but it seemingly doesn't happen in any PC version of Dune 2 known to me (I'm certain that Fremen units have different icons in the Sega Genesis Dune: The Battle for Arrakis though). From the results of my own testing, the Fremen and Sardaukar troopers are exactly the same as any other House's.

[javichal]

By the way -- the modded version that I meant was V1.07 with the AI fix, which I should note is quite a bit more challenging than the old version. It's just that I don't know if maybe patching the original version would cause the units' values to be changed.

I know there's Super Dune 2, which I'll probably get around to once I've finished Dune 2, but haven't done it yet.

[MrFlibble]

The AI fix doesn't affect anything within the EXE, as it only makes the game utilize the code which was already there but not used because of a syntax error. BTW, perhaps you'll take a look at my unofficial patch for Dune 2 as well (it includes the AI fix among other things).

[drackbolt]

Fremen/Sardaukar are very different in my game.  ;)

[MrFlibble]

I've given this topic INFO status, perhaps someone will include it into our Wiki.