LOTR question regarding Saruman

[TMA_1]

Finished reading The Unfinished Tales and so I really got back into LOTR. Anyways this question has been getting to me and I want to know if anybody else noticed this.

When Gandalf meets with Saruman at Orthanc, he notices a ring on Saruman's finger. A bit later during conversation when he unveils he is Sauron of Many Colors, not Sauron the White, he also bestows on himself other titles. One especially is "Ring-maker"... hmm

My theory is he was dabbling in the craft of smithing items and placing within them magical properties like many of the Noldor elves before him. Not only this but probably primarily he was trying to immitate the dark lord in his own way.

The thing is though, in The Unfinished Tales it says that Sarumon in Aman was called Curumo and was a Maia of Aule, the God and guardian of smithing and craft. So he might actually have a capability of creating something not as powerful as Sauron or Feanor, or even Celebrimbor, but something of some sort of value.

Any fans otu there know what this is all about with his title and his ring? is it just nothing or is there something to it?

[Tezcatlipoca]

My impression was always that Saruman, after having studied Sauron so intently--Saruon's infuence in the East when Saruman traveled there with the blue Wizards, all of his studies of Sauron in Minas Tirith and other locations, and his espionage into Dol Guldur--he began to not just form the opinion that Sauron was the greater power, and thus something to ally with instead of fight, but I think he started seeing him as a wonderful point of aspiration. All of this of course was aided by the Palantiri once he obtained it after being granted Orthanic, and his assumed that he could safely use it to communicate and spy on Sauron, in order to gain more information.

After a while all of the influence from Sauron, as well as Saruman's obvious personality--more human and thus greedy and thirsty for power (even though he still intended to put it to use against Sauron, as per his original intent), where I'd say Gandolf's personality was more Elvin, certainly a result of the people's they spent most of their time with--placed him under the impression that if they were to beat Sauron, they needed power on par with Sauron to do it. This idea probably morphed into his later stage of "Well, once I have this power myself, I will not only be able to rule the roost with the Council of the Wise, but eventually I will be able to destroy Sauron and rule absolutely." The destruction of the Council was probably a decision, obviously influenced by Sauron, that if it was gone, Sauron wouldn't doubt his loyalty and he could continue his crafts until he was powefull enough to challenge Sauron.

After studying the One Ring, he decided that this must be one of the keys to achieving such power. So he took up ring smithing, and crafted his own ring. He probably then decided that even this couldn't challenge the one ring, and that he needed that as well. I think we can also thrown in that he was jealous. He was the head of the Council of the Wise, but while three of the others had a ring of power--including Gandolf which was probably the *biggest* insult to himself--he did not. That's partially speculation, as the fact that with the exception of Gandolf, the others had the Elvin rings might have been hidden from him, but I doubt it given how close he was with them in their resistance against Sauron.

Basically, I agree with you that he was attempting to immitate Sauron, but not in the way of how a child immitates a Hero, but instead as a way (originally) to obtain enough power to help the Council beat him, and then as a way to gain ultimate power and defeat everyone.

As for his Maia persona, I doubt this had much influence. In their his "human" form, they never had any of their probable previous powers or abilities according to the Unfinished Tails. I think his crafting all came as a result of his studies of the rings of power (and although we don't know for sure, his not ever using the Ring he crafted in any situation related to us, is probably an indication of it's quality: not very worthwhile. But that's far fetched since none of the other Council ever "used" their's either). Of course, I think it's possible to say that while he didn't retain any abilities, or even talents from his time as a Maia, he would retain some distant memories of this time, and thus remember that, as put in the Unfinished Tails, "great skill he had in works of hand." So he probably aspired to regain this (as a result of the pangs of longing induced in all of them to return to their former lives, as long as they kept their sights on their mission) initially, and then used his newly gained abilities to just try and become more powerful.

Now, somewhat off topic, but related is that I find it somewhat interesting that just about everyone involved in sending the Istari to Middile-Earth recognized that Radagast was going to be more or less useless in the task. It seems everyone just went along with it in order to please Aule who was trying to please Yavanna. It makes me wonder how much time Radagast spent at Tom Bombadil and Goldberry's place ;).

[TMA_1]

hehe

Well the Istari all had their specific goals, and remember it is stated that because they had their human shells they had a lot of freedom. On top of that they never worked as a singular entity, always doing what each individual willed. That is probably why the Blue Wizards never came back, too much power and control over the easterlings. I personally believe that they did not serve sauron, but created their own evil cults from their own power. Wish we could know more, but again it really isnt important since the east and south are not apart of the epics.

thanks for the comments man, really helped. :)  I just want to know what that ring was and what it was used for. I am in total agreement with you because ever since the movement of the Istari eastward, Curumo had a grudge against Olorin. The Powers had wondered if Olorin should be first, almost like when the Council wanted him first. Maybe that is why it was so bitter for saruman, because it was a cry back to an age before their landings in Endor, and made him completely hardened against those of the west.

[TMA_1]

Another question to any of you out there.

In the map I have in the Silmarillion there is a place near the Marches of Maedhros called Himring.

In the maps of Middle earth of the third age above forlindon there is an island called Himling. Is this somehow related? Because if so that means there is still a small part of Beleriand in the third age, which would be really interesting. Also the monument of Turin is said to have existed beyond the breaking of Beleriand after the Great Battle, if so does it still exist and where?

And more of a personal question... What is your favorite history or epic story of all the works of Tolkien? Mine would probably have to be The Tale of Turin Turambar. There are a few others though I love which I will mention if somebody else comments.