RIP Scott Helvenston

[GhostHunter]

Have the UN fix it? Have you noticed that the main contribution (At least in an obvious tone) was that of only Britain? No one else is willing to spend the insane amount of cash, even split up into smaller portions. And regarding the leave now concept - if we leave now another dictator rises and in 20 years we may have to go back and do the same campaign all over again losing many lives. So I recommend finishing the job here so in the future we won't have to march into Baghdad and say, "why didn't we fix this back then?"

[Seal89999]

Yeah ok, so what do you suggest we do to "finish the job"? Not too much is happining very fast. Setting up the new government, yeah thats gonna happen anytime soon :P. In the amount of time it will take to fix things up perfectly we will have lost all of our soldiers to terrorist attacks. Iraq is not our problem, we have to learn to stop screwing with other people and trying to be the governor of the world.

[GhostHunter]

Oh yes, because 622 due in a full-country invasion leads to the massacre of 130,000 American soldiers until we leave in a few weeks.  ::)

What we need to do is be more strict, get things set-up more logically, and get this job done or else we'll be invading this country in the future. We're not govoners of the world, Bush just needed oil; we're imperialists, get it down right!  :P

[Wolf]

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/ -- This is one website that shows the point of views of several Iraqis who want democracy. You cannot falsly encourage six months of a people's constant testimony. Perhaps if you had actually read the website, you would not have asked me how we got these results. I would appreciate it if, when I cite information, you actually look at it before questioning them.

Somewhere on this forum -- Is a link to an ABC news poll citing that the majority of Iraqis want a democratic government. This is largely considered to be accurate.

Why don't they speak up? Because they are afraid to, and until we create an environment in which they are not afraid to speak up, they will not. Therefore, we must create this environment in which it is OK to be democratic, and then it will happen.

Furthermore, we pull out of Iraq now, we create a terrorist state. And then, my friend, we have a whole lot more problems than we have right now.

[Seal89999]

It just seems to me that more Americans are dieing than progress is being made. We have our soldiers there to protect the "good people of Iraq". If they speak up it will make a big step to stabilizing that country. Some big changes need to be made or else nothing is going to get done. And the way its going there will be alot more than 690 some deaths.......which is alot if you actually value human life not to mention your own countrys soldiers.

Perhaps we shouldent move out but we should lay down the law and shoot down terrorists in the streets. Its time to stop being so nice and actually get this job done....

[Wolf]

That is very Sardaukar of you, if you don't mind my saying so. I, too, feel that we could be doing more to literally fight terrorism. However, I feel that we need to more properly adapt to the combat at hand, and perhaps develop better weapons and rules of war to deal with terrorists.

[Dante]

Or possibly listen to what they're saying and try to work something out? These people are turning to terrorism because they do not see an alternative. Perhaps we should provide one.

[Wolf]

I do not feel talk is the correct method of dealing with terrorists; I feel that the best non-war solution to terrorism is to improve the humanitarian and economic status of the regions that breed terrorist members. Once they have good lives to lose, they will avoid undertaking actions resulting in the risk of their loss.

We can try talking, but I doubt it will work. We should not stake the entire enterprise on talk alone. Talk should not be the crux of anti-terror operations, but probably should be pursued for the sake of legality.

[Seal89999]

You cant improve their way of life if they kill you when you try. Those people dont know what they want, they just want to kill the American infidels and get them out of Iraq. If we dont lay down the law terrorism is going to walk all over our troops even worse than it is now.

[Wolf]

Funny how we exhaust our options so quickly.

[Dante]

I do not feel talk is the correct method of dealing with terrorists; I feel that the best non-war solution to terrorism is to improve the humanitarian and economic status of the regions that breed terrorist members. Once they have good lives to lose, they will avoid undertaking actions resulting in the risk of their loss.

That's more or less what I suggested first time... Remove the causes of terrorism, terrorism disappears.

'Laying down the law' is not going to help. You try to tell someone what to do and they will always resist. I don't think there is an 'only way' but one option at least is to walk out, let them descent into anrachy and chaos, and then either 1) Go back and start from scratch  or 2) Let them work it out from scratch.

Either way they'll still blame the US and UK for all the problems. Lovely...

[exatreide]

Then you crush that resitence utterly and make everyone one of his people know that it will not be tolerated, peacefull protests are fine. But when one weapon is displayed when one person dies becouse of that, You must make the whole punish so that not one will show a weapon at a peacefull protest again.

[Wolf]

... Have you read Dune?

[exatreide]

Yes, But Rabban only killed the city people, not the ones in the deep desert he never routed out maudib and killed the problem.

If he killed maudib the fremen rebellion would have been crushed.

Not to mention the Iraqi's cant shoot for shit their not elite desert warriors where it takes ten americans to kill one of them..quite the oposite actully.

[Wolf]

Yeah... I think this is more like Fish Speaker/Pacified Arrakis than Wild Arrakis/Fedaykin.