The little red hen

[Wolf]

Yes, that's what I wanted to differentiate between; shared property in taxation. So, since there is no government in communism, there must also be no taxation, since taxation is a government institution.

My next question, then, is how people naturally helping each other on a daily basis occurs? Since there is no government, how can this be enforced? It seems to me that communism requires a collective mindset of the population to work with unconditional positive regard for one-another. People who do not have this mindset become hermits. Is this correct?

[Edric O]

What I mean by "people naturally helping each other on a daily basis" is that in a system where all property is shared and where people work together for the common good, they inevitably end up helping each other even without realizing it. For example, let's say you build object X. That means that whenever someone uses object X, that person was effectively helped by you. You see, when the borders of property are abolished, your work ends up helping everyone else, and everyone else's work ends up helping you.

So there is no reason to enforce this kind of help - in fact, there is nothing to enforce. It comes as a natural result of a system of collective property. The only way you could prevent people from helping each other would be to enforce private property.

And yes, people who disagree with the system become hermits. But keep in mind that the hermits can always get together and form their own separate society if they wish. I think we already discussed this elsewhere. I pointed out that any communist system will probably have a number of non-communist (possibly capitalist) societies existing alongside it, but these societies will be rather small and they'll never grow much, because there will be a constant stream of poor and dissatisfied people leaving them to go join the communist system.

[SurlyPIG]

And yes, people who disagree with the system become hermits. But keep in mind that the hermits can always get together and form their own separate society if they wish. I think we already discussed this elsewhere. I pointed out that any communist system will probably have a number of non-communist (possibly capitalist) societies existing alongside it, but these societies will be rather small and they'll never grow much, because there will be a constant stream of poor and dissatisfied people leaving them to go join the communist system.

So in other words, if they don't like it, they can leave and be on their own.  Kind of like a job in a capitalist-based system, no?  Only there won't be another place to go.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. ;)

[Edric O]

Ah, but there will be another place to go. That's the point. Some of the land will be used by the communist society itself, some of it will be set aside for natural habitats, and some of it will be made available to hermits or whoever wishes to establish a new society.

That is one of the reasons why it's different from a job in a capitalist system. The other reason is that communism is a democracy. In other words, if the majority agrees with you, then you don't have to leave. You can use your democratic power to change the system right where you are.

[Wolf]

So, if someone simply does not wish to share that which he makes, does he have to leave, since he has then created a private property, or is he allowed to stay?

[Edric O]

If he does not wish to share what he makes, then obviously he is not entitled to benefit from what others make. So yes, he cuts himself away from society, and therefore he must leave (or not - he may become a hermit without actually moving, if the circumstances allow it; for example, if he lives in a rural area to begin with).

[Wolf]

So, society doesn't actually just pull together a mob and physicall throws him out, they just stop sharing with him?

[nemafakei]

Which may mean no use of public transport, no medical care, a small plot of land (size: one six-billionth of the world's landmass, and of average fertility), only the resources you can extract or produce yourself...

[Edric O]

So, society doesn't actually just pull together a mob and physicall throws him out, they just stop sharing with him?

Yes. If he lives in a city he'll probably have to physically move in order to become a hermit, but if he lives in the countryside he can stay right where he is.

On another note, I'd like to point out that the Little Red Hen story isn't my own creation. It seems many people don't realize that, so I want to give credit where credit is due.

[Egeides]

"Conceptual Guerrilla"

I wonder why, but I don't like this habit of communists to be fervent defensor of guerrilla...

[Edric O]

Actually, we're not. Guerrilla tactics were just a fad started by Che Guevara - very romantic and all that, but utterly unable to establish proper socialism. You'd expect any serious communist to realize that guerrilla tactics are doomed to fail, because they're more like coups d'etat than proper revolutions; they don't involve the support of the working class.

And CG is a New Deal liberal. He's not even a socialist, much less a communist (although I'm trying to make him see the light ;) ). He picked "Conceptual Guerrilla" as a nickname just for shock value.