The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004

[emprworm]

  Quite the opposite: He told them to give all their money to the poor.

I know he said that to one individual rich man, but to all?  Nicodemus was not told to sell what he had.  And he was a rich man.  Bad hermeneutics.

Sure there was money. There was also murder, rape, and every other imaginable kind of sin.

but money is not called sin.  lust of money is sin, but so is lust of anything else, including the lust of socialism.  any principle, any material item...can be someone's god.

"First of all, that is utter hypocrisy - because you want your system to permeate the entire world too."

No i dont. 

"Second of all, keep in mind that there is no privately owned land in communism. "

I know that already.  That is one reason why socialism is an abomination.

"A group of capitalists could get together and establish a capitalist society."

Using whos land?  If your thugs take over the world, where would capitalists go?

"Loaded question. You assume the capitalist system has better equipment, which is highly unlikely"

Is empirical fact.  MRI:  invented in the good ole USA.  Laproscopic surgery:  USA.  Ultrasound:  USA.  Viagra:  USA (some ppl in here seem to need that one).  I went to emergency here in Canada and was fascinated to see their nearly total reliance on US invented medical equpiment and drugs for their health care system.  Communist systems rarely contribute to the advancement of technology.  There is no argument against that the entire world uses medical technology invented in the united states.  We invent it....Asia mass-produces it....you use it.

[Edric O]

You mentioned Nicodemus. This is what the Bible says of him:

Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews;

this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."

Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"

Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be?"

Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?

Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;

so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

- John 3:1-21

I don't see a single reference to him being a rich man. In fact, wealth is never mentioned.

[Edric O]

I know he said that to one individual rich man, but to all?  Nicodemus was not told to sell what he had.  And he was a rich man.  Bad hermeneutics.

As I mentioned before, by that logic you could argue that everything Jesus said was only meant for His Apostles, or for the handful of people who were listening at the time. (Jesus only spoke to large crowds very few times, and even then you could say that His words were only meant for those particular Hebrews in the crowds)

It's only reasonable to assume that if something is in the Bible, it wasn't put there for no reason. If Jesus's advice to the rich man only concerned that specific rich man, then why does every Christian need to hear it? Why is it in the Bible?

but money is not called sin.  lust of money is sin, but so is lust of anything else, including the lust of socialism.  any principle, any material item...can be someone's god.

You mean like Bush is yours?

Money is not sin, but it's not exactly "holy" either. Was there any money in the Garden of Eden?

No i dont.

Really? Then you wouldn't mind if the Iraqis, for example, chose a non-capitalist system for themselves? You wouldn't fall in line and support an invasion of a country where the people have voted for socialism and/or communism?

I know that already.  That is one reason why socialism is an abomination.

Abomination, you say?

Then tell me: Was there any private property in the Garden of Eden?

Using whos land?  If your thugs take over the world, where would capitalists go?

There are no thugs. We want the people themselves to take over. We want the people to be free of any coercive authority, whether it is state power or the power of private property.

(property is a form of authority - and an illegitimate one at that; an object is your "property" because you can use force to prevent others from using it)

As for your question, I already answered it in my previous post:

Some of the land will be the collective property of various communes, some of it will be set aside for natural parks and reservations, but the rest will be public domain. Any large enough group can establish their own society, governed according to their own principles, anywhere on this land. A group of capitalists could get together and establish a capitalist society.

Is empirical fact.  MRI:  invented in the good ole USA.  Laproscopic surgery:  USA.  Ultrasound:  USA.  Viagra:  USA (some ppl in here seem to need that one).  I went to emergency here in Canada and was fascinated to see their nearly total reliance on US invented medical equpiment and drugs for their health care system.

Under the current global capitalist system, OF COURSE the richest country in the world is also the source of the majority of high-tech inventions (such as new medication).

But you're deluding yourself if you think Americans invented any of those things on their own. They co-operated with scientists from countless other countries, and they used hundreds of research papers published all over the world.

Sure, lots of things are invented in the USA, but they use the combined knowledge of the world. Thanks to globalization, there are no longer any clear limits between one country's knowledge and another country's knowledge.

Communist systems rarely contribute to the advancement of technology.

Since no communist system ever grew beyond the size of a single city, of course that's true.

The USSR and other stalinist countries had nothing to do with communism. However, I know you were referring to them, so let me ask you this: Who put the first artificial sattelite in orbit? Who put the first man in space? Which country achieved the fastest economic growth rate in history? Which country went from being an impoverished agrarian 3rd world nation to being an industrial giant and a great superpower in only 30 years?

The Soviet Union.

Sure, it eventually collapsed due to the inherent contradictions in stalinism (you can't have a socialist economy without democracy, so stalinism could not last very long), but before that, it had achieved more than anyone else ever did.

[Edric O]

Oh, and by the way, do you remember when I said this?

First of all, let me point out that a rabid ultra-conservative like Emprworm is not exactly the world's greatest authority on marxism, or socialism and communism...

In fact, I'll even wager that Emprworm cannot give you a straight definition of those words.

Emprworm, define the terms "marxism", "socialism" and "communism".

The reason why I am asking you to do this is because you don't really have a single damn clue what you're talking about, and I intend to expose your idiocy for all to see.

Looks like I was right. Emprworm is not only unable to provide even the most basic definition of those terms, but he later showed that he doesn't even understand that communism is a classless, propertyless, stateless social system.

Of course there is a state in communism!  Go read Karl Marx some more then come back to me and talk.

How much Marx (or any other marxist/communist writings) have YOU actually read? Let me guess: You don't read those things because they're eeeevil, but you know all about them from Fox News's latest "fair and balanced" report on communism, right? ::)

Here, educate yourself:

www.marxists.org

www.marxist.com