Amtal Rule, The BG, and Dune

[TMA_1]

There is a lot of influences with Jung, a famous psychologist and with Frank's ideas. The idea of a communal or racial consciousness shared with other humans. Frank seems to indicate in the books that it is sparked by narcotics. Often deadly amounts of narcotics that are used to spur on hyperconscious states of mind to control extremely microcosmic actions within the body. It seems that these drugs are used as the ultimate "amtal rule". Testing yourself through a life threatening process to overcome an object of deadly proportions. It seems to me that somehow by inducing a person to act with life and death dangers, that somehow it sparks an almost superhuman response to those trained enough.

It reminds me of Destination: Void in the fact that if you have to fight for what is most dear to you (your own life, or lives of others) that the test will come out with the purest and most true desires to fulfill the test with a good outcome. Obviously the "amtal" rule isnt frank's own idea. It seems to me to be a genius idea to bring into the Dune universe, and I find that it seems to be the ultimate catalyst for sparking a consciousness that is beyond the norm.

Now add this test with the melange, which by itself acts as a mind expansion narcotic, it is no wonder why the bene gesserit can do what they do.

what do you guys think?

[Inoculator9]

I agree TMA, and I've always personally loved the idea of drug induced clarity. That whole concept was always very thought provoking for me. Of course in real life such a thing has never been encountered, unless you count caffeinne lol, but nothing as impressive as spice ;)

[TMA_1]

or LSD fiends, who eventually would be put into mental assylums for overuse of the drug.lol not always, but you would be suprised how mind warping narcotics can be. Totally inoc, I couldnt have said it better. Finding drug induced clarity.

[Egeides]

Beyond, could you please develop about the inducing of clarity by drugs?... WHICH clarity besides? Many get somepletely overwhelmed by drugs and just mix everything (real and not) which brings them to the complete opposite.

[TMA_1]

Well the reason why sometimes there is cloudiness and a lack of intelligence with drugs is most people while taking them dont take them for "clarity of mind" but for clearly recreational purposes. usually they want to be "fucked up".

Also it depends on the kind of drug. We have no poisonus mind expanding drug like the spice. With the spice space and time become more tangable so to speak. It is more readily understood. And with enough time becomes something seen like almost a sixth sense.

It is hard to explain, but with a lower example that really doesnt compare to Spice is with LSD.

If you take it, and want to expand your mind, you feel like a great door has been opened, you can hear colors and see sound, no joke it really does seem that way, and I mean not metaphorically, you really get the idea you pick it up. Of course it is all a trick of the mind by lsd.lol Still though it is just an example where alternate states of reality become more accessable. LSD doesnt really change your mind and enable you to see time and space obviously.lol

[Egeides]

But isn't LSD just giving you illusions of something instead of giving you a state of mind permitting to truly get something? Expanding the mind, if it's expanding only on things that are false, is just useless. The goal of a mind expansion is to see more of truth/Truth.

[TMA_1]

no no, if you read what I said, I told you that LSD only gives you hillucinations, not real insights. I was just tellng you how things seem more real while on it, and it was a guess to how spice gives you a more tangable feeling of space-time.

[Egeides]

Oh okay.

So do you believe that drugs can get anywhere else than just hedonism and unreality?

[TMA_1]

not true, they have potential, but humans have a problem with abusing them.

[Egeides]

Ok, so you believe that drugs are more than hedonism and unreality. What can they bring? Sure, they can give you an experience about a new feeling, some other way to perceive things, but since this feeling and perception aren't conform to reality, what can it bring other than what has to do with knowing one more thing humans can feel?

[TMA_1]

Well some religions use drugs in their ceremonies, in others it is used for recreation. Even in Dune, look at the fremen with the changed water of life. Just because something is enjoyable doesnt mean it is evil. Most drugs arent evil, just dangerous, because people cant control themselves. That is why I stay away from it. anyways that is a subject for politics and religion.