NON au Trait

[Dude_Doc]

To be sure, main french argument for "non" only showed how they are thinking nationalistically yet.

Just because there are both Left-wing groups and right-wing groups who voted "no" does not mean that they think only of themselves. Would I be a nationalist if I voted no to a global government that promises to unite us under "freedom and democracy", while it's constitution speaks of things only a fascist would?

[SpiceGuid]

First, Edric-O, i wish to congratulate you because your french speaking level is good enough, and it's good to see some people still learn french, an old and once powerful nation with now a fading glory :(

Second there is too much about the EU constitution so i will reply later.

EDIT:

Worst of all, it is insanely difficult to amend.

Then rejoice because the counterpart: it is insanely difficult to ratify. France and Germany are no more leaders, there are more an historical core for 25 countries. There are only 12 euro-countries among 25 EU countries. This treaty would have required unanimity of 25 countries, so it was doomed from the start.

Spain has voted YES (because the economical boom).

German government has voted yes (germans have not been consulted).

France has voted NO.

Dutch has voted NO.

They say "the ratification process continues".

They have reached the pinnacle of autocracy.

Their theory is people should not be consulted because people response depends on mood rather than rationality. Or they think so.

Don't worry, the treaty is dead, it simply has no democratic legitimacy. And hopefully we still live in democracy.

Going back to the debate over the EU constitution, perhaps I should point out who the 4 sides in this argument are:

You got the points. Your knownledge of the politics of each and every EU countries is astounding.

This constitutional treaty is ridiculously anti-democratic and neoliberal in the extreme.

The theory of the eurocrates is:

1. unemployment is the evil

2. jobs can be created only if competitive

3. salary is the enemy of competivity

4. consequently to pressure the salaries is the only viable politic

To beat US by being even more liberal seems their only goal.

They have no project.

To be sure, main french argument for "non" only showed how they are thinking nationalistically yet.

Partly true and partly false. False because the motives for NON are the ones given by Edric-O. True because i somewhat sense french are so desperate, they discover they are not the center of the cultural world, they try to resist, to protect, now we are just the "veto" country, we can't be constructive anymore. All we can do is fossilize. Seriously, we need fresh air.

As for me, I'd like to stay out of EU as long as possible.

I can understand you.

Sometimes i wonder what EU enlargement really is. A larger zone of prosperity? But what spreading prosperity means when more and more french and german people are poors? Or just a shield, an economical buffer-zone, to protect us from China and India? Seems cynical but could be the sad outcome.