Question about Butlerian Jihad

[rosoner2]

i always wondered when is Butlerian Jihad happend? What year after Christ it was?

[TMA_1]

well it varies. You have some people that say it happened thousands and thousands of years after the death of christ, using the DE usually. You have the other side though that cuts it a lot closer which usually goes towards the prequels.

[rosoner2]

in 'House Atreides' Paulus says that this show is 12000 years old (agamemnon i think) and that it is from ancient Greece. So, does the Butlerian Jihad happend somewhere after 2000 after Christ?

[Emperor Harkonnen]

It happens pretty accurate 17.000 years after christ. according to the book :)

[Inoculator9]

According to DE, our early history is very different from normal, something like Rome taken complete control... can't remember exactly, but Jesus might not have happened :)

[Emperor Harkonnen]

if Jesus didn't happen how come we got navachristianity then in the BJ? :P

[Inoculator9]

It's just a theory, and Jesus wasn't needed for all that to necessarily happen. And I'm speaking from thet DE point of view, which is wildly different from the actual books.

[TMA_1]

mcnelly said once that the DE isnt cannon at all. Most people totally misinterprited what he meant by it. He really did think that his ideas should have been cannon for the Dune universe, but he so intelligently made choices for writing the DE. He wrote it as if it was written 15000 after guild. He purposely screwed up on the ancient history in parts, and altered other portions to make it fit with how people in the future of the dune universe would think. For example the nations during the "golden age of earth" (ww 2 era and on till the late 21st century). the historian in DE calls the nations Houses, and houses by their "trademark" so to speak. Like House Windsor, House Washington, House Nippon, and so on. Also they call einstein a "raw mentat", capable of almost superhuman thought without extreme training. They also distort history and make it so that the western world on earth was the most important thing, the only thing. THis is because the western world is where the prime drive was to disperse from earth, and move out into the stars. Western culture soon altered and changed but the basic ideas of the past were morphed to their limited viewpoint. History changes with the people. Mcnelly knew this and wrote the DE with flaws, because any history 15000 years after an event is sure to have some errors. hope this all makes sense.

ALso, christianity doesnt play as large a role because one of the major "new" prophets that came after the dispersion was of islamic beliefs, and from this there was largely. islamic, eastern accented religions. I am overgeneralizing here but it might help to read my post on the religion of Dune.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

but isn't the orange catholic relgion the largest? and it isn't influenced by islam.

[TMA_1]

the orange catholic bible is a complilation of the various religious teachings in earth's ancient past, as well as a few religious books written later in duniverse history like the ilm and others.

meometh (I do believe that is how it is said), the "3rd mohammed", integrated zen teachings of opposites attracting and neutrality from the mix (extremely general way of putting it) along with Islam. Because he was Sunni islam, it was much easier to alter and add to God's word. Many like him sprouted up and there are even some zensunni books in the OCB. Islam is probably one of the greatest influencers in the eccumenical religion of Dune.

This is how I see it from most to least importance.

Islam in it's various forms, more sunni than shi'i. A mix of eastern religions, taoism, zen buddhism, other forms of buddhism. various forms of hinduism. Zeroastrianism. the seik (sp?) faith. a condensed and fused form of christianity, taken from many denominations. judeism. New age forms of belief. a few more that I cant think of right now.

I think islam is the greatest influencer not just because of paul and his crusades, but also because throughout the history of the Duniverse, many of the greatest prophets seemeed to have been largely islamic. So many sects and groups are islamic in general faith.

this is just all my opinion, but the Orange Catholic Bible is simply a "small c catholic" book. it is the staple religious text of the universe. Christianity just plays a small side role in it all. as a matter of fact, the old testament is mentioned more than the new testament. key books like psalms and other histories are quoted. This goes well with islam because mohammed demanded that his followers accept the holiness of the old testament, and portions of the new testament. it is mentioned in the quran that the only way to attain wisdom is to study the quran, as well as the books of the other spiritual brothers, that the prophets of the old testament are holy in God's eyes.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

if it is islamic influenced it has also to be christian influenced because not isn't Jesus just a prophet in the koran, Islam is also based upon Jewism and some christianity.

but I think it is strange that we don't see much to christianity in Dune, nothing of it's cultures and values. except maybe in the atreides.

but the orange catholic bible has both the name bible and catholic so it is mostly christian I guess.

sorry if I seem to favorise Christianity over Islam :-