thanks Nyarlathotep, I'll get back to you with the patch idea, i checked the cd versions as well and there the same,they also cannot be directly changed,remember a cd is ROM(read only memory) and only the systems files or windows can be changed,valid point though, thanks again to gryphon,there was a fire wall(zone alarm pro) but i uninstalled that,even after formatting i still get the same problem,do you think it would be wise to try it connecting on the net,this may out line any problems?