Digital Guerrilla Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 The worm is the spice, the spice is the worm. The water of life drove men insane and killed them what was the ultimate truth of the universe that caused their death and not Paul's? In other words what did they see in the minds eye that they could not accept as truth that killed them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salikadali Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 Interesting question, I was asking a similar question in the Gom jabbar thread, but I guess this topic belongs here more than in Emp. BFD section.Anyway, that is a very good question, why did many men die?, what was it about the Water of life? I remember Paul saying something about all the visions of the future were closing, and he had to take the water of life to open them, to free what could save them. Even after he took the Water, he could still not see beyond the point where he had to fight Feyd, that being sort of a fulcrum point that hinged different futures. What if Feyd had won the fight? a different future, probably not good. Hmmm. I always thought it was interesting how Paul won that fight; Jessica told him to use a (power word?) that would relax Feyd's muscles, but Paul refused the advantage (wanting it to be fair)- he wispered during the fight that he did not want to use the advantage, in that instant Feyd hesitated, his poison needle missed, and Paul(Moidib) won. Hmm, cool.I remember an analogy from the book; that the difference between having the visions (granted by the spice and the Water of Life, perhaps, but Paul was having visions even before he took these substances) were like the difference between standing at the bottom of a dune in the desert, where all you can see is the next dune, and standing at the top of the dune, where you can see many dunes unfolding(like the future). Hence the name Dune.;)Herbert's idea of the masculine and feminine points of view, and how it was harder for men to take the water of life than women, this is very interesting and difficult to answer. Umm, ok, here goes my attempt, but First I have to say that I believe that Men and Women have the same equal value, regardless of the different attributes of the sexes. (this is a touchy subject) Here goes, Man is the provider, the hunter, the seeker, the risk taker, the Father, /Women is the nurturer, the childbearer, the security, the Mother. Testosterone/Estrogen(although the individual mind of the person is always a factor). This is just a guess, but maybe when a person took the Water of Life, they experienced the primitive urges of of their particular sex, the Women's being more Life Giving and thus less dangerous, the Man's being more risk oriented and Life Threatening, and thus more dangerous. Maybe that is why it terrified the Women who were afraid to look there. The power of life and death is a great power,and at the same time a great responsibility, all life has value, some of the Native Americans believed this, I believe this, Power should be tempered with wisdom and justice. Maybe in Herbert's mind, the men who could not control themselves, sort of self destructed upon recieving this power from the "water of life."Well, I hope that helps. Wfeew. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Primitive urges of their particular sex........hmmmmmmm that is a very good educated guess Ggeshino. In a way the water of life is liken to the story of Man in the Garden of Eden (and before anybody out there starts to give me a hard time just ease the hell back I will explain myself). What I mean by this is......the fact of acquiring a vast amount of knowledge at one time in other words revelations almost like an information overload. And I agree with the statement by Ggeshino about although the individual mind of the person is always a factor. I agree because if Paul had not been who he was and had the training that he had the water of life would have destroyed him mentally. The water of life is a mental test much like the gom jabbar except very different. Was the water of life the ultimate truth that no man could turn from? The truth about who we are is sometimes harder than being who we want to be and Paul was the sleeper who had to awaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligic_Tha_Master Posted December 29, 2001 Share Posted December 29, 2001 I understood it like this:They saw the truth, but they didn't want to live knowing this terrible truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted December 29, 2001 Share Posted December 29, 2001 So what was this terrible truth that they saw and they just could not live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligic_Tha_Master Posted December 29, 2001 Share Posted December 29, 2001 That there weren't going to be a hotter woman than Margaret Thatcher! EVER!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted December 29, 2001 Share Posted December 29, 2001 I'll have to agree mate that is very terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligic_Tha_Master Posted December 29, 2001 Share Posted December 29, 2001 But since we aren't dead, it means we are Kwisatz Haderach!!! :D :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernius Posted December 30, 2001 Share Posted December 30, 2001 The water of life was a posion. People that drank it became real doper up like you would have been if you were to drink liquid LSD. It was only revered mothers or other uhhhh "blessed" people that could drink it and take knowlegde from it. Other from that its just a posion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernius Posted December 30, 2001 Share Posted December 30, 2001 The water of life was a posion. People that drank it became real doped up like you would have been if you were to drink liquid LSD. It was only revered mothers or other uhhhh "blessed" people that could drink it and take knowlegde from it. Other from that its just a posion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligic_Tha_Master Posted December 30, 2001 Share Posted December 30, 2001 Thanks Vernius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted December 30, 2001 Share Posted December 30, 2001 spice is also like heroin, I heard that most people or alot of the people that use it die from it when they try to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted December 30, 2001 Share Posted December 30, 2001 like spice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nampigai Posted December 30, 2001 Share Posted December 30, 2001 I never heard that, don't you think they OD or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted December 30, 2001 Share Posted December 30, 2001 besides ODing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard3000 Posted December 30, 2001 Share Posted December 30, 2001 The Water of Life was a poison, as has been said. Â But it was equally lethal to both men and women, even those who were prepared for it (i.e. Sister Quintus Violet Chenoeh). Â The ability to transmute the WoL into a drug was based largely on skill and lifelong training as well as gender and evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Guerrilla Posted January 2, 2002 Author Share Posted January 2, 2002 What was the real purpose of the water of life in the first place? I mean if the spice gives them prescience of what use was the water of life (to the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood)? Both are powerful drugs so what was or is the need for both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphabeta4000 Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 spice was used for flavor in foods and they stuff navigators had to have to fold space, the water of life is used to clear the mind and allow free thinking at a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 The water of life is the truthsay drug. It also helps prescience near a nexus. Furthermore, it gives access to the alam-al-mithal.The spice gives quasiprescient visions which are not always completely accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Guerrilla Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 Ok alphabeta4000 maybe not to you but I wanted to know to understand Herbert's writing better Dune is not exactly simple in certain terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphabeta4000 Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 true very complex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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