Edric O Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 "the christians, however, have been carefully putting down witchcraft for years, and still do so"CAREFULLY putting down witchcraft? No, they're just making a lot of noise and generating arguments around it. Besides, this only started very recently, within the past 40 years, after a few centuries of "quiet". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 One of the things that I really hate about our modern civilisation is that pretty much everyone is bashing Christianity:- Moslems feel persecuted, so they do everything in their power to remind the world of the Crusades, forgetting about their own holy wars (past AND present)- Wiccans seem to want revenge for the medieval witch burnings, although none of the victims were actually wiccans- Atheists like to blame Christianity for all the evils of the world. They still haven't found a link between Christ and the great atheist mass murderers (like Stalin and Pol Pot), but I'm sure they'll think of something...- The Media bends over backwards to prevent religious discrimination against other Religions, but has no problem with shows and documentaries that openly attack Christianity.Our only friends are the jews. :'( :'( :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Hey this is MoiDib, can't log onto it so I made another. Onto the message: Edric: If God didn't like what he sees, why wouldn't he get rid of us? To let us live and continue our so-called evils, that is saying there is a possibility that God is enjoying this. But that would be giving God human attributes, thus making him not so perfect. To NOT like something is a human attribute, making God imperfect. The Bible says God is perfect, etc. If it contradicts itself, in other ways also mind you, that would mean SOMETHING would have to be wrong, and if one thing is wrong, how can you not have doubt with the rest of it's content? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Are you saying that ALL human attributes are "imperfect"? Many of them aren't even "human", they're just attributes of intelligence. Any intelligent lifeform (and even some of the others) should be able to LIKE or NOT LIKE something.Mind you, God isn't just any lifeform. But there are some attributes that He DOES have in common with humans, just like we have some attributes in common with algae...Not everything about us is imperfect. Remember that we were created perfect, so the imperfections were acwired since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia_of_the_Knife Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 I wish that i had found this thread earlier. I have so much to say on this topic.First of all: I am a sound Christian. I believe that I am going to heaven because I asked Jesus into my heart, and asked him to forgive me of my sins. On the faith issue..... The definition of faith is: 1.Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. 2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof. Therefore, if I have faith in something, it does not have to have logical reasoning.On the witchcraft.....It was mentioned throughout the Bible, so it has to be true. It must have happened.On the Crusades and the like......I don't believe that they should have done that.On the martyrs:Those are the kind of people you respect. They had enough faith in their God that they could sacrifice themselves for him. I really respect their sincerity in their faith, and hope to meet them one day in heaven.On the perfection issue:God gave us free chose. We could chose to be perfect if we wanted to.I hunger (please excuse the term) to learn more about God. I read my Bible as much as possible and I learn more about him every day.Thank you, and Good night!Pan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Oh boy....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 It is impossible for Humans to be perfect. To be perfect is to be one and all, some might say to be perfect is to be God. Humans are and always will be imperfect. No questions asked. If God let us be perfect, we would be at the height of God, and doesn't that destroy Christianity and other reilgions? We are what we are, and always will be what we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nampigai Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 You respect martyrs? Those who flew into the twin towers where martyrs, what's great about them.I don't like people to force a religions upon others. Each and everyone should be left alone to decide their own belief.And Edric earlier you said that all converted, that's not true some of them did. But when the Danes where converted, we went out and forced the "venderne" some people in the Baltics into christianity.I once saw a program on discovery about the Knights Templar. And according to that the holy grail wasn't a holy grail, but the royal blood of jesus. This sounds in my opinoin more apropriate than a holy grail. According to the program, Marie came to southern france where a large jewish community had settled carrying the child of Jesus. I know it's blasphemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 If god is perfect why dose he create imperfect beings? Dose he enjoy to see us strugle? Dose he enjoy watching us slaughter millions? This brings up the question is god perfect? Cause nothing in the universe is perfect. How can a imperfect being claim to create perfect things when nothing in the universe is perfect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 A question only solved with faith Ex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 12, 2002 Author Share Posted January 12, 2002 Actually Edric I never have and never will trust the Mossad, Israel's intelligience agency. Also Christianity started as a sect within Judaism, the Jewisk King Herod, along with the ROman Governor Pontius Pilate had Jesus killed. When Jesus was born the bible tells us that Herod ordered all male children under the age of two be killed, just think about that for a second, possibly thousands of babies slaughtered! I'm surprised the sands didn't run red with the blood of the innocents.Free will is where things begin to get confusing, if God wanted mindless worshippers he would have made them. But to give us the free will to have respect for all he has made, to let us stand in awe of it just because we want to, it is a far greater reward probably. Also, there was the Great War in Heaven when Lucifer rebelled, his influence affects our free will, and thus helps to corrupt us. TO help us believe God is not real, and that nature spirits or a big explosion from nothing created us. As for the hijackers slamming into buildings with the airplanes, that's the main reason I withdrew my point on martyrs. But still to die for your faith or cause is a trait that when done for the proper reason can rank up there with sacrificing yourself so another may live. (Even if that is a sketchy definition of martyrdom.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Now for all u aginst evolution. If God gave us free will dosent that include the will to adapt? If U live in africa for thousands of years your skin turns black to sheild u from the sun. If u live in the arctice u grow lots of fasial hair. If a frogs envirement is slowly changing into a destert over millions of years, He will turn into a reptile. Things change. Maybe god dident create anything but the first volcanons on earth. Maybe thats the extent of his powers. If u think about it like that then. We are All gods in are own matter. We can plant a flower and the next year there are ten flowers. And If there is a god he is a busy guy. U got to reamber that there are thousands of soler systems in a galexy which means thousands of planets with thousands of like forums. There are a unknow number of galexys holding who knows how many trillions of things. And there are many many many universes. Why do u Think God has the time to focus just on us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 12, 2002 Author Share Posted January 12, 2002 Something else that bugs me is the lack of respect Christianity gets in AMerica, yes it is time to bash my own nation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Axissillian Gallaway Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 ::) First of all let me say that I am standing beside Sallia in this debate for *ahem* personal reasons. Now to begin, I am sorry but there is a GREAT deal of evidence proving that not only did Pagan worship still exist in medieval Europe, but was pretty frequent. For example the concept of witches flying on brooms came from a medieval rural pagan custom of stripping nude and coating oneself in a hallcunigenic oil giving the user the feeling of weightlessness. Afterwards they would straddle broom sticks and be seen leaping through the area in a chemical rush that they identifiyed as flying. Also, sorry to say, very few Pagans converted willingly into the christian religion. As a matter of fact during the late times of the Roman Empire, shortly after its conversion to Christianity and the conquest of Pagan Ireland several Pagan missionaries lived and preached as "missionaries". Shortly after the banning of all Pagan worship such as the Olympic Games in Greece by a Christian Emperor many of those "missionaries" were either killed or converted. So sorry... that is two that you have been very wrong on. (BTW feel free to question my resources as I can easily show them to you monday.) While I have no complaints about the Christian religion, I do find your criticism of other's beliefs humorous when you yourselves have a very hypocritical theology. Personally, I believe there is no god, no gods, no goddess, no giant purple chicken who lays the eggs of doom or anything like that. I simply believe there is a force, an unexplainable and illogical force that doesn't give a damn about me or you. As for the afterlife, there is no such thing as good or evil people, or even a place where they are punished and rewarded. Think about it, if the afterlife is simply a place where you go to find rest, would it matter if you are good or bad? Would it matter if you murdered someone? Wouldn't they just see their families again in a matter of years and be together again for the rest of eternity? So if that is the case, what keeps us good? It is simple, people have created order. We do not have order from gods or sons of them, we have order from ourselves. God is not god, people are gods... case closed. As for creation, nothing was ever created... the universe has simply always existed and exists without boundaries or limitations. If that seems impossible to you, ask yourself this: "where did God come from?" Maybe it all makes a bit more sense when you think about it logically yeah? Well there you go, a huge rant from your local Agnostic Pragmatist Greyite... I should enjoy reading the responces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Axissillian Again! Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Alright... I just read the prayer in schools thing I am about to go on another rant again. Alright, School prayer does absolutely crap when it gets down to the ideas of morality. People were screwing on school in the 1950's, were screwing in public in the 1900's, and were screwing young and in public back in the 1600's. Now before you pull some obscure percentage or fact from some library of data you may have compiled... consider this. A simple study of socialogy proves that most statistics are horribly innaccurate when it comes to making assumptions out of them. Maybe the reasoning for the rise in sex in school is because of bad tv shows, or maybe because sex has become a non-taboo subject, or maybe our liberal society has decided to address an already existing problem. See what I mean? It is impossible to accurately trace any change in society by using one simple method. Notice Teen Sex increased after the women's liberation movement, so maybe it was their fault. It also increased during the Civil Right's movement, so maybe it is all their fault. Finally, I do not care if you think praying to whatever god in whatever form will bring a sudden wave of morality to the world, because it won't. Prayer in schools was taken out because it was illegal and repressive to a person's individual freedom's. Notice, you are still allowed to pray in school, but you cannot force people to do it. And trust me if I ever was forced to bow before any god I did not believe in I would take a stream of rebellion and self-righteousness not seen since our founding fathers came up with the great idea of "Seperation of Church and State". That right's there seperate... not together... seperate. Get over it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 No but if it took million of years for the atmosphere to disapate we would probly grow much larger lungs to breath what ever oxegen there is. And in a few million years who know what we will look like. Modern Humans have only been around for some 100,000 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 12, 2002 Author Share Posted January 12, 2002 Personal reasons being you are Sallia's boyfriend. ;) Now let's see, I believe I mentioned Russia earlier, but I forgot the part about Vladimir ordering that mass baptism in the Dnieper River. Let's see, yes it is true that many Pagan religions were outlawed as certain EMpires became Christian, but look at those Empires now. For example the Byzantine Empire, conquered by the muslims, the Ottoman and Suljuk Turks to be exact about it. However, the old Church in Mideval times was paranoid, slightly more fanatical, and of course more devout I think. Yes they did do horrible things, wage wars, burn people at the stake, even tortured them in ways that I would be banned for describing (trust me I did a research paper on it), killed people for no apparent reason, and thought not showing as much skin was holyer. However they did read their bibles more often, din't make pornos, etc. SOmetimes I wish I lived back in those simpler times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobalopper Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 I don't think the removal of religion at school is a direct link to how society is acting. Things similar to what you mention were already happening and people were turning away from religion before it happened.I'm christian but I don't think religion should be brought into public schools. I don't mind that they teach kids right from wrong but having symbols of christianity isn't right when there are lots of other religions out there that don't get the same attention. Religion is something that should be taught in the church or by your parents not your public school. It's a very touchy subject, something that shouldn't be brought into a place where children are easily influenced.Your choice of religion should be exactly that a choice. If you don't believe in a God or a religion different from someone else its your choice and isn't something a public institution should try to impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Axissillian Again! Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Ummmmmm sorry Ordos... there are several medieval pornographic paintings discovered throughout history. And even better, many of them depict catholic monks in acts of sexual perversion. Let's not even get into the amount of pornographic texts from that time period, many of it again centering around Catholic monks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 12, 2002 Author Share Posted January 12, 2002 Ok prayer in schools, oh boy why did I bring that up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Yes the Church in the ressisnace(not midevil prety sure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Axissillian Again! Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 First of all, Thanks to Ex for his kind words of support earlier. Ummmmm Ordos, you never really made a counterpoint to my sex in schools argument, you just repeated what you already said. I am also well aware of the appearance of nude men and women in classical art, but there was also pornography. Venus on a clamshell is a far cry from a Monk with a harlot straddling his lap while he takes her breasts into his mouth. If that is not porno I do not know what is. (If you question my resources here be sure to check the History of Sex on the History Channel, my favorite station). And romanticising the Medieval Era as a "simpler" time in those respects is foolish. There was no concept of sexual purity, the had sex in as many perverted ways and means as they do now, and just as often. Also the religion was not a pure as you make it seem, hundreds of Medieval Churches through history have been unearthed, revealing tons of dead babies, the illegitimate children of nuns and priests. So sorry, there was porn, and there was no real difference sexually from then and today... we just talk about it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 12, 2002 Author Share Posted January 12, 2002 Um Axis, I jjust watched the History of Sex at 10EST too. ;) Anyhow I never got ot my counterarguement for sex ins chools? SOrry. Lets see, can I make a "no comment" statemnt? The world seems to revolve around sex, one day in class I was sitting with two girls and talkign and I said the world di not revolve around sex. I started a word game. First what I said and then their response. Bible- Virgin Mary A line- a *censored*RUnning nude on a beach- no need for responsePicture of kids playing outside a house- A boat in the middle of the lake where the husband and wife are *censored*Book-Porno hiding placeWhere is Edric, its only around 6-10 AM in ROmania, I tihnk? Anyhow, yes that art is pornographic in nature and I must admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Yes just like violence sex is part of humans. It has alress been around and will probly alwas be in some forum or another. And another thing about censor ship. Maybe you read it or not but here is one of the reasons why. Last year We had to do a class project magizeen. Me and 2 other people made a magizeen about videogames. Wes The only one to do hardwhare got to keep his stuff. But I did a reveiw about Fear Effect 2 a Dino Crises and a preview of MGS2. Guess how much of it went? All of it. She said "Its not Christian enough". I was so angerd with her I got into a 10 minite screeming match with her and had to be sent to the princibuls office. He aided with me and she was fired i belive. But she manged to get me kicked out of the Smart kids class. That is also why i am so aganist any typ of Church in school. I have alwas been against them but that just launched me into a fury of which i am still in today and will probly never get rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 12, 2002 Author Share Posted January 12, 2002 Would that be the same teacher who was fired from your schoolb ecause you were reading Dune Messiah and she called it Sacriligious? Anyhow sorry that she held you up to standards that were not your own, she shouldn't have done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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