ordos45 Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 yep you heard me right. A California judge ruled the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional due to the words "under God". Apparently the judge says it is a violation of the Separation of Church and State. That is just stupid, even if it is only in the 9th Circuit Court Disctrict.http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/06/26/pledge.allegiance/index.htmlWhy is it I always end up supporting Rush. I hate him, but he and I often seem to share the same views. Thanks for posting the Circuis Court Gob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duneguy Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 yup its on the news and i find it fuc|<ing stupid.. cant they find somethign else to do that destroy a tradition, and a symbol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Eagle25 Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 damn straight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobalopper Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_062602/content/stack_d.guest.html ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duneguy Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Ergh all this diplomatic Sh|t pisses me off royally.. first it was the covering of the breast of the woman somewhere didnt care much about that, not its the fuc|<ing pledge of allegence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord J Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 It's all indicative of the world we're living in. Peacetime...bull...We're so afraid of war, but we're so confrontational that we've got to have *something* to complain about or we feel inferior and weak. Never rule out war before your species is ready for peace. And you can quote me with that one. Suppression is *never* the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frodo_I Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_062602/content/stack_d.guest.html ;)Ooouuuyyyyyyaaahhhh, Rush Limbaugh is like two steps away from being the anti Christ. ECK, that guys pists me off royallyAnd i'm slightly conservative too, he's just too over the top, the republicans answer to jerry springer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 It's pretty dumb, but if we are going to make a law, people are going to exploit it to it's core. That's just our way. It is offensive to a lot of people who don't believe in the God said in the allegiance, so I can kind of understand a part of this. I wouldn't think of it as athiests once again trying to rid the world of anything God though. Besides, God wasn't even put in by our founding fathers, it was put in the 1950's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted June 29, 2002 Author Share Posted June 29, 2002 Also if you want to get technical about it. It only says "under God". It does not say "Under the God of the Jewish faith" or "Under the God of the Christian faith" or "Under the God of the Muslim faith" or "under the God of (insert one deity faith)". Even though I realize its the Christian one, but if you were to be technical it doesn't specify which God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 You arent forced to say it so if you are offended then dont say it. Also the "God" refered to during the founding of the constitution was not the christian god per se. It was a deist God of reason. very few foundign fathers were christians. most just believed a great creator existed. thats it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted June 29, 2002 Author Share Posted June 29, 2002 Actually, that was the Declaration of Independence. CNN, interview with the guy who sued over the Pledge is where I found that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyPIG Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Well I'm not American but I say its about freaking time. Making students recite religous writings, swear loyalty and make pledges is ridiculas. That belongs in a church not a classroom or school auditorium. I dont think the Buddhists, Muslims, or atheists like having to swear allegiance to God / the flag / the constitution / Larry King / whatever.The anthem every morning is acceptable but swearing to a God indicates a major life dedication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Eagle25 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 DAMN STRIAGHT ACElethal !! I'm always tired of doing it. I'm Buddhist, but I can't do ne thing about it. Earlier i was saying it's crap. Dont call me hypocritical, but now that I think more about it...reciting that 'Under God' shit is B$ . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted June 29, 2002 Author Share Posted June 29, 2002 Little off topic, but ACElethal. Madrasses are Muslim schools for Muslim children. They are taught all about Allah and Islam in general at these schools. They pray to Allah many times a day at one of these schools. And by praying to Allah, they are pledging their allegiance to him. (I just love old Reader's Digest articles.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyPIG Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Yes but the reason those kids go to a muslim school is because, *GASP* they're muslim! They probably do it every day. In a PUBLIC school with mixed religous beliefs, its wrong.In a specialized school like these Muslim Madrasses or Catholic schools, Jewish academy's, Buddhists schools, Ahmish schoolhouses etc, its fine because they're all [insert religion here]s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobalopper Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 You aren't swearing allegiance to God by simply reciting it. The Pledge of Allegiance isn't religious writing either, it's pledging allegiance to the United States of America not a certain religion.America WAS founded "under God" and last I heard you can't rewrite history. Just because people have become so uptight over religion doesn't mean all mention of it has to be abolished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Eagle25 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Evveryone has an opinion.... :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted June 29, 2002 Author Share Posted June 29, 2002 Plus the US has that whole law about not having to say the Pledge of Allegiance in school if it conflicts with your religious beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyPIG Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Like I said I'm not American so I dont know the nature of this pledge's origin. It's not a matter of being politically correct, it's a matter of respecting all people that go to that school. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand it, the USA has been a diverse nation since it's very creation. The "founding fathers" may not have acknowledged or accounted for other religions or backgrounds but there's no reason they cant nowadays. Alter the wording slightly or scrap it all together and replace it with a pledge to the flag, the national anthem or something but forcing kids who are at the stage in their lives where their entire belief system is being built to recite the blah blah blah under a particular god is pretty insensitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Eagle25 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 *nods in agreement* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord J Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Hrmm, I never listen to Rush Limbaugh, he and I don't exactly "gee-haw" on political views...I prefer listening to Art Bell, Coast to Coast AM.Heh, when *I* was going to school (first grade) the teacher had us gather in a circle and pray to Jesus (*gasp* *gasp*, *HORROR*) before going to lunch. It didn't warp my brain and views of the existence or nonexistence of God(s). At least I don't think it did...of course...you never know...trust no one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyPIG Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 In a school that is centered on Christianity, that would be appropreate. In my opinion, it has no place in a public school.Don't get me wrong though. The Recitation of historic scripts is often inspirational, and gives a sense of unity to those practicing it. The national anthem or the salution of the flag would be most appropreate. Of course, it's wrong to make anyone sing or recite something that goes against what they believe in.I pity the school board heads in England where the national anthem itself is a religous statement. "God save the Queen" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frodo_I Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 personally i wouldn't have any problem with the church and state thing if they would be less hypocrytical about it. For instance, the Under God comment is NOT pledging allegiance to God, nor is the God mentioned necessarily Christian (although church and state doesn't differientiate religions)The only thing i wish they would change is the standing. As far as i can remember, they make you stand EVEN if you don't say the pledge. So in my opinion, standing is FORCING affirmation on children, if you don't have to say the pledge thats fine, but if you have to stand during it it's just like saying you still have to observe it and give it credance. I personally didn't have any problem saying the pledge. But i certainly wouldn't want to be made to stand during the swearing of allegiance to Mao Te Sung either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 i am for the seperation of church and state.....but even i think they have maybe gone to far with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Eagle25 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 for once i agree with Ex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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