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MattBaker

What is Dummy Condition?

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Hi, professionals,

What is Dummy Condition in the mission editor? How to edit it? I never use it but I see it in many missions...

 

Thanks!

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12 hours ago, MattBaker said:

Hi, professionals,

What is Dummy Condition in the mission editor? How to edit it? I never use it but I see it in many missions...

 

Thanks!

I heavily suggest to you to use the v1.2 editor from Klofkac
https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27226-release-dune-2000-map-and-mission-editor-v12/

Because "Dummy Condition" it's called "Flag", but also there was a misleading line that said "Unit in tile" but in reality it's "Tile Reveladed" which changes a lot the meaning. I am not sure if the old editor you are using right now it's one of the klofkac early versions or you mean the very old MVI. If you are still using MVI's one; then I double suggest to change. The new editor can help you to use those dummy condition, using them even withouth understand how exactly they work.

Answering your question; I don't know exactly how to explain what it is, but let's say it's used for control. It can be used to trigger an event only one time.

so, when you create a "building exist - Atreides (CY)" and attach to it a "reinforcements" the game will crash because everysecond this event trigger over and over again, crashing "too many reinforcements".

With the flag you can make this to trigger only the first time that the Atreides CY it's deployed, that doesn't happen again.

If you were using the klof editor; you only need to create the "reinforcement - building exist: Atreides (CY)", then right click and "Add run-once flag"; the editor will create the stuff automatically so when the building exist, the reinforcements appears but only once.

But also can be used for another purposes, like triggering an event multiple times but not at the same time, just like the original campaign Harkonnen, the one with the Atr High tech factory. On that map the briefing talk about how the ATreides use that building to bring Imperial reinforcements.

If you start the game, reinforcements drops at intervals, but nothing more happen.
If the building it's destroyed and then the AI rebuild it, a message trigger saying something like "Atr have the building again!"; if you destroy the building and he rebuilding once again the message trigger a second time.

I cannot explain exactly; I took me lots of try and error trying to replicate that behaviour the first time, so I suggest to you to check the Feda's tutorials; this one talks about the dummy thing with the old editor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsrg4KDnTQM

But again, if you are really using that MVI editor, just move on the other. The MVI one if you start using dummys and then remove other events (even if it is only a timer) then you need to update manually the numbers of every dummy you used or the map will be broken. With the other editor that doesn't happen (it's fixed automatically) and make it more easy to understand.

Check this other video with the new editor:
https://youtu.be/gXvLceRanJQ?t=514
You can see even Feda said how easy it's to make use of flags (and show it in the video); so give it a try.

Even the most complicated and hard part, the harvester remplacement (1 harv delivered if the player lost all of them) can be created in the klof editor with 2 clicks, while in the other you need to create the 4 conditions and the 3 events manually (and check/unchecked the correct conditions) to make it work and, of course, testing in to be sure that works as intended. With klof's editor you click twice and the thing it's done and 100% sure that it works

It really haste modding a lot; you will take like 2/3 less time and efford than before to create everything, both terrain and events; plus it's more visual since you can see instactly where the reinforcements will appear on the map so yeah, use klof's editor.


I found this other post, somebody asked the same some time ago, Feda explained there.
https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27338-dune2000-d2k-editor-~-how-to-use-flags/?do=findComment&comment=392542

Edited by Cm_blast

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3 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

I heavily suggest to you to use the v1.2 editor from Klofkac
https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27226-release-dune-2000-map-and-mission-editor-v12/

Because "Dummy Condition" it's called "Flag", but also there was a misleading line that said "Unit in tile" but in reality it's "Tile Reveladed" which changes a lot the meaning. I am not sure if the old editor you are using right now it's one of the klofkac early versions or you mean the very old MVI. If you are still using MVI's one; then I double suggest to change. The new editor can help you to use those dummy condition, using them even withouth understand how exactly they work.

Answering your question; I don't know exactly how to explain what it is, but let's say it's used for control. It can be used to trigger an event only one time.

so, when you create a "building exist - Atreides (CY)" and attach to it a "reinforcements" the game will crash because everysecond this event trigger over and over again, crashing "too many reinforcements".

With the flag you can make this to trigger only the first time that the Atreides CY it's deployed, that doesn't happen again.

If you were using the klof editor; you only need to create the "reinforcement - building exist: Atreides (CY)", then right click and "Add run-once flag"; the editor will create the stuff automatically so when the building exist, the reinforcements appears but only once.

But also can be used for another purposes, like triggering an event multiple times but not at the same time, just like the original campaign Harkonnen, the one with the Atr High tech factory. On that map the briefing talk about how the ATreides use that building to bring Imperial reinforcements.

If you start the game, reinforcements drops at intervals, but nothing more happen.
If the building it's destroyed and then the AI rebuild it, a message trigger saying something like "Atr have the building again!"; if you destroy the building and he rebuilding once again the message trigger a second time.

I cannot explain exactly; I took me lots of try and error trying to replicate that behaviour the first time, so I suggest to you to check the Feda's tutorials; this one talks about the dummy thing with the old editor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsrg4KDnTQM

But again, if you are really using that MVI editor, just move on the other. The MVI one if you start using dummys and then remove other events (even if it is only a timer) then you need to update manually the numbers of every dummy you used or the map will be broken. With the other editor that doesn't happen (it's fixed automatically) and make it more easy to understand.

Check this other video with the new editor:
https://youtu.be/gXvLceRanJQ?t=514
You can see even Feda said how easy it's to make use of flags (and show it in the video); so give it a try.

Even the most complicated and hard part, the harvester remplacement (1 harv delivered if the player lost all of them) can be created in the klof editor with 2 clicks, while in the other you need to create the 4 conditions and the 3 events manually (and check/unchecked the correct conditions) to make it work and, of course, testing in to be sure that works as intended. With klof's editor you click twice and the thing it's done and 100% sure that it works

It really haste modding a lot; you will take like 2/3 less time and efford than before to create everything, both terrain and events; plus it's more visual since you can see instactly where the reinforcements will appear on the map so yeah, use klof's editor.


I found this other post, somebody asked the same some time ago, Feda explained there.
https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27338-dune2000-d2k-editor-~-how-to-use-flags/?do=findComment&comment=392542

WOW that's awesome thanks a lot!:laugh:

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23 hours ago, MattBaker said:

Hi, professionals,

What is Dummy Condition in the mission editor? How to edit it? I never use it but I see it in many missions...

Thanks!

In addition to tutorials, the best way to learn about such scripts is to see them in action! Try out some campaigns, then load up the maps in the editor. Try deleting a SetFlag from a trigger and see what happens. :P

As Cm explained, they are used to make events trigger only once. There are some other strange behaviors you could use them for, but that's kinda learned from practice and I don't have any good examples on hand.

Certain conditions only trigger once without the need for a "flag," aka dummy condition. Timer=# is a one-time, timer=% is repeated every specified number of tics so it won't necessarily crash the game unless it's a very small amount of tics, and > or < would require dummy conditions. Intervals are similar to timer=%.
Tile revealed is another.

The format of flags is something like this, for an Atreides player as an example:
Conditions:
BuildingExists=Outpost(A) TRUE (unchecked)
DummyCondition FALSE (checked)

Events:
Reinforcement=2 Trikes at X / Y for Atreides
Set Flag=DummyCondition # = true

That's set up so once the Atreides player builds an Outpost, two Trikes will arrive only once at the specified coordinates.

Regarding the practical application of flags, here are a few other examples of what to do with them:
1. If a certain enemy building has been destroyed, reinforcements for the player will arrive near its former location.
2. The player's Spice has fallen below a certain amount. The player will receive a message and a reinforcement Harvester.
3. An abandoned Heavy Factory has been captured by the player. Several Combat Tanks spawn in around the structure.

It's those one-time things that could bring much character to a map. There are more ways to spice up a map, so to speak, but basic use of flags is a good place to start. If you have a specific idea for something else in mind, we could surely tell ya if it's possible or not, and how to work it up. :)

On the subject of experimentation, I've been doing quite a lot of it in my latest work-in-progress thread. If you'd like to see heavy use of events to create very scripted maps, and how that sort of thing turns out, have a look there!
And, I have another map finished which is more technically complex, but that one's definitely a better example for more advanced stuff. Probably best saved for a later time.

Edited by Fey

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