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[Release] Smugglers Campaign

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The .bin files are the same as the old version or are new? just to know what group I need to maintain.

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7 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

The .bin files are the same as the old version or are new? just to know what group I need to maintain.

They're the most recent copy. Should be the same as the copy in the Harkonnen bonus mission DL, buuuut I think I might have tweaked something, not sure.

I also tested each level over again on easy, normal, and hard mode to ensure all triggers are working as intended and gameplay is preserved. Hopefully I didn't miss a spot. :D

Now I'm going to go and update the Harkonnen campaign just as soon as I'm done confirming all the bugs are gone and the AI actually does stuff.

Edit: Tweaked S9V2 a little... sorry! ^^ The OP has been updated. It's nothing big, just some cosmetic changes that should make the map look better. Here:

Spoiler

 - Changed triggers so S7 walls don't detonate
 - Modified dialogue for Summers
 - Added one infantry-only tile

Now to get around to the Harkonnen maps again, hopefully soon...

Edited by Fey

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I am playing the campaign again, but only 1 version for every mission. So far so good.

Spoiler

 

Mission 1 I choose the "tutorial". I was a even with the enemy but I was messing a bit around, so all fine.
Mission 2; I went the mission about the Fremen-sietch stuff. That Sardaukar representing "you" it's new right? I not remember being that Sardaukar the last time I played.
The enemy seems more agresive than the last time I played, so I couldn't negate the enemy to build everything he wants.
This map took me a couple of tries because at some moment I start selling buildings to have more money and an extra money to last a bit longer. Then I loaded the map and decided to not sell anything so the "good" finish appeared.

was hilarius went I was "mmm... What will happen if I attack that Sardaukar?" and the game said "You have been killed." I laughted at that.

Mission Bonus; I didn't played this mission the last time, so it was totally new for me.
First at all. You have reached a "C&C script" type of mission. Just looking at Sumadi moving as he had some kind of script here and there it's something amazing. 

I lost the map once because when the base are revealed I move my units to the base, waiting for Sumadi to come. Then I realice he wasn't on his way and I was "Mmm Where is he going?" So he died and realoded.
Next Time I followed him. He lied: "I'm badly wounded..." xD (he didn't even take a bullet), and the rest withouth problem.

I was wondering why he went that way. There is another path more simple, faster and safer, but anyway. Not too much trouble during the walk.

And finally, mission 3, "choosing sides". I started building some economy and units, and then scouted the area with the raiders. at first I spotted both, so I decided to load the game and just act like I am only to scout 1. I went to the east, I got the alliance of that side and nothing more to said.

Besides one wave that come from the entrance (only infantry) that cost me a good amount of looses I was fine. In fact, I was over-harversting so I started to send a few harversters against the enemy to crush a few infantrys. They hadn't to many units at that time (I already damage the enemy taking out a few buildings) but I wanted the "silos needed" voice to shut up so I sacrificed a few harverster which do some more damage to the enemy infantry.

I need to not use so many money on that until the starport don't become available or something like that. Since your mod requires plenty of money to do upgrades I just think "I need lots of money/harverster" but of course, after doing the high cost for the upgrades, then using money to do quads and trooper it's low.

For now I beat those maps, I'll keep playing the others later.

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Hey man, thanks again for stopping by this campaign! I look forward to hearing your feedback on the most updated missions. Any commentary or criticism is, of course, helpful.

Spoiler

Mission 1 I choose the "tutorial". I was a even with the enemy but I was messing a bit around, so all fine.
That's fair. When I play that map on Hard mode, if I'm trying, all I'll have up is a Light Factory with a Barracks and a modest force... it's possible to take them out as they land, but a little tricky unless you take out the right targets. Grenadiers and all that can be pretty nasty. I also reduced the amount of Spice needed so the map's over a little sooner since the last time you tried that map, I'm sure!

Mission 2; I went the mission about the Fremen-sietch stuff. That Sardaukar representing "you" it's new right? I not remember being that Sardaukar the last time I played.
The enemy seems more agresive than the last time I played, so I couldn't negate the enemy to build everything he wants.

The enemy is only more aggressive because their MCV can't be taken out now. :P That Sardaukar has always been there, but unlike the bonus mission, the escort is only half the map. The other half is survival.

It had to be a friendly unit, not a unit you can control, since that unit is meant to represent Summers and the Sardaukar don't have any female voice lines. I also wanted to progress the map automatically, and after extensive testing, that is exactly what happens regardless of whether the player tries to slow it down or not.

This map took me a couple of tries because at some moment I start selling buildings to have more money and an extra money to last a bit longer. Then I loaded the map and decided to not sell anything so the "good" finish appeared.
Indeed. The way it works is, the player needs to be below a certain amount of cash AND a certain amount of time needs to pass. The map is set to progress no matter what because Summers' pathing will force the events to always occur. So, the player can't cheese the timer. The amount of cash gone is pretty decent, should be 2000 Solaris if I remember right, so even if you get to the very end and sell all your buildings because you're 100% broke and the map's still not over, you'll still be below the threshold required for the end-map trigger to occur.

The trick is surviving for that long given limited funds. Grenadiers are amaaazing on this map! They and Troopers can totally wreck whatever comes your way, and you can cover the flank with Trikes and even Quads if you'd like.

was hilarius went I was "mmm... What will happen if I attack that Sardaukar?" and the game said "You have been killed." I laughted at that.
Haha, yeah! The briefing ends with Summers (you) stepping out of the Carryall into the sun, gun loaded and helm on. It's implied you're on the battlefield, and one of the objectives states that you must survive. She's pretty easy to keep alive through the escort, and then after that the Imperials will leave her alone and instead prioritize the Sietch.

Mission Bonus; I didn't played this mission the last time, so it was totally new for me.
First at all. You have reached a "C&C script" type of mission. Just looking at Sumadi moving as he had some kind of script here and there it's something amazing.

Hey, thanks! This mission took the initial concept of S2V2 and turned it into a full map. It's short, but it's not meant to be a huge bonus mission, just a fun little run through some Imperials. Also, the Sardaukar represents Summers, actually! This was originally designed to give some context for how Summers was able to escape either version of S2 and make it to S3 alive. Just like S2V2, I use berserking and alliance events to make stuff happen.

I lost the map once because when the base are revealed I move my units to the base, waiting for Sumadi to come. Then I realice he wasn't on his way and I was "Mmm Where is he going?" So he died and realoded.
Aw, man XD Yeah, this map has quite a lot of scripted dialogue and pauses. Since the entire thing is an escort, I thought I'd make it a little more cinematic. :P

Next Time I followed him. He lied: "I'm badly wounded..." xD (he didn't even take a bullet), and the rest withouth problem. I was wondering why he went that way. There is another path more simple, faster and safer, but anyway. Not too much trouble during the walk.
I've been wondering if I should change that line, but I ultimately left it in since Summers was canonically present at either S2 battle prior to this mission. The briefing said her Raider broke down, so she probably took some damage before she lost Giraud somewhere in Dune's terrain. If she's in-game wounded, then that will give her some time to regenerate. What do you think I could change it to, if anything?

As for why she walks that way, video game logic. :P The small pass I added between the cliffs was just in case the player needed to navigate that terrain. There are more Imperials ahead, so that's where the action is going to take place, after all.

And finally, mission 3, "choosing sides". I started building some economy and units, and then scouted the area with the raiders. at first I spotted both, so I decided to load the game and just act like I am only to scout 1. I went to the east, I got the alliance of that side and nothing more to said.
The map should work out as long as you complete your objective with the Harkonnen at least. You do need to pay them a whole bunch, but until you do, the Atreides won't bother you at all. Very chill map. S4V1 is a step up and not only allows you to side with either the Harkonnen or the Ordos, but that map is entirely timed and the enemy will automatically turn on you at some point - whichever enemy that may be.

Besides one wave that come from the entrance (only infantry) that cost me a good amount of looses I was fine. In fact, I was over-harversting so I started to send a few harversters against the enemy to crush a few infantrys. They hadn't to many units at that time (I already damage the enemy taking out a few buildings) but I wanted the "silos needed" voice to shut up so I sacrificed a few harverster which do some more damage to the enemy infantry.
Build more Barracks and Light Factories! Up to 3, you can produce units faster and spend Solaris faster. :D

I hoped to make starting out easier and sustaining through tech advancements harder with my mod. While Refineries (and some other buildings) are more expensive, and upgrades are more expensive as well, having cheaper Harvesters makes it waaay easier to get started quickly. And then, you should choose: Do you want quick, but delicate Quads to harass Harvesters, rush in the enemy base and instagib priority targets, quickly take out those walls? Or, do you want slow infantry units you can mass and garrison in rock formations? Which can also self-heal to a point.

The infantry are really effective if used carefully. Bring a bunch of Light Infantry and/or a few Grenadiers - 3-5 will do - along with a group of Quads and watch how well they keep enemy infantry at bay. Or, bring some Raiders along to support your Troopers and see how many buildings you can take out with even a small attack.

I need to not use so many money on that until the starport don't become available or something like that. Since your mod requires plenty of money to do upgrades I just think "I need lots of money/harverster" but of course, after doing the high cost for the upgrades, then using money to do quads and trooper it's low.
That's the idea! After you get started, it's easier to keep up, but while you're just starting out, you'd need to make some choices about which upgrades you want and what buildings to put down. Putting up another 2,500 Refinery is risky when that 312 Barracks, that 625 Light Factory, that 1,250 LF upgrade, or that 750 Rax upgrade might give you what you really need at a given time. Ideally, you'll come up with a good unit composition for whatever financial limitations you're encountering and counter what they're sending at you cost-effectively!

S2V2 on Hard mode is a very good example of this. They're sending Combat Tanks, Sardaukar, Trikes and Quads at you for the most part, and you've got access to Light Infantry, Troopers, Grenadiers, Trikes, and Quads. So if you upgrade the LF and get Quads, they have to be kept away from Sardaukar and pick off isolated Combat Tanks, and mass Light Infantry do well in the rocks. If you upgrade the Rax, you can organize squads of Grenadiers and Troopers, which are amazingly effective at keeping everything on S2V2 back. Trikes aren't quite as awesome as Quads, but they make good support units for the infantry in that case. If you upgrade both, you have more options but less funds to do it with.

Personally, on that map, I really like Grenadiers / Troopers / Trikes best. The attacks can be damn brutal. The infantry are versatile and cost-effective and able to buy you all the time you need to complete the mission.

I hope the four you did thus far were fun. :) Do you plan to re-play the other versions of the maps at any point?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Fey said:

Indeed. The way it works is, the player needs to be below a certain amount of cash AND a certain amount of time needs to pass

But also the light factory need to remain alive. I sell it and use the money (and the extra infantry) to defend; once I went out of money I proceed to sold other buildings until only barracks were alive and 100 credits. Still, not mission win. So That was the thing.

5 hours ago, Fey said:

Build more Barracks and Light Factories! Up to 3, you can produce units faster and spend Solaris faster. :D

Nah, that first wave appeared when my money wasn't that big. I couldn't afford wasting money on buildings but on units. At the end when I launch the harverster I could do it, but I didn't really need it, and Harkos were helping too, so 1 building was enough.

5 hours ago, Fey said:

Which can also self-heal to a point.

Oh, I forgot about that thing. need to use them more :P (I mean, in future levels, now there are only 2 queues to build stuff).

5 hours ago, Fey said:

That's the idea! After you get started, it's easier to keep up

Yeah, I know, but seeing 2000 credits, 1250 credits, 750 credits I keep thinking "I need moar!". The same happen in your harkonnen campaign, that map you need to do something and then you recieve a couple of carryalls. You said "Those planes are needed" but at that point I had 8000 credit's "silo's needed" xD. But anyway, I think a couple of maps Until I get used to it and that's it.

5 hours ago, Fey said:

I hope the four you did thus far were fun. :) Do you plan to re-play the other versions of the maps at any point?

They were fun. So far nothing to complain.

Probably. Maybe when I end I replay the whole thing with the other versions (maybe skipping the only 1 version) so I can play the whole set. I am skipping 1 version now because if not it's not "progression" (after 5 maps, still no tanks).

Edited by Cm_blast

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3 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

But also the light factory need to remain alive. I sell it and use the money (and the extra infantry) to defend; once I went out of money I proceed to sold other buildings until only barracks were alive and 100 credits. Still, not mission win. So That was the thing.

Oh, darn it! Why did I keep THAT in? I should go fix that...

3 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Nah, that first wave appeared when my money wasn't that big. I couldn't afford wasting money on buildings but on units. At the end when I launch the harverster I could do it, but I didn't really need it, and Harkos were helping too, so 1 building was enough.

Oh. Okay. :P

3 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Oh, I forgot about that thing. need to use them more :P (I mean, in future levels, now there are only 2 queues to build stuff).

Yeah XD If you take like ten Troopers up to the enemy base, take out a building and then take them out of harm's way, you'll see just how quickly they can clear through a whole base. I'm fond of smaller attacks, especially on the earlier levels, and even with a small escort of Raiders and a few Troopers, you can blow through the wall on S3V2, take out four Wind Traps, and possibly even a Refinery as well before your forces are taken out. Smaller groups of infantry are preferable anyway because they tend to take damage at the same time in large groups, so you might end up losing them more quickly.

3 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Yeah, I know, but seeing 2000 credits, 1250 credits, 750 credits I keep thinking "I need moar!". The same happen in your harkonnen campaign, that map you need to do something and then you recieve a couple of carryalls. You said "Those planes are needed" but at that point I had 8000 credit's "silo's needed" xD. But anyway, I think a couple of maps Until I get used to it and that's it.

If you play on hard mode and adjust to the building prices in particular - more Refineries, the Starport's 2500, etc., the upgrade prices remain exactly the same. Going back down to normal difficulty means everything's suddenly easy. XD

The Carryalls on H3V1 help a lot! You can take the smuggler base fairly early in the game, one or two solid attacks will do it. Once you get rid of the Spice fields nearest your base, they don't respawn, so either you need a bunch of Refineries and Harvesters to keep a steady flow going or you need a couple of Carryalls. I like to have just, like, 2 Refineries on that map until after I get my production up there, and like 4-6 Harvesters generally do it for me.

Yeah, it does take a little getting used to. Going back to normal gameplay for your maps was like... Refineries are 1500, Harvesters are 1200, and I'm dying over here. lol

Oh! Speaking of hard mode... if you get the chance to try the "in-game hard modes" on certain maps that have them (i.e. S3V2 fighting the Harkonnen and the Atreides), I'd love to hear about how that went!

4 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

They were fun. So far nothing to complain.

I'm really glad to hear that! Still, that Light Factory thing on S2V2 is something I suppose I should really fix.

4 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Probably. Maybe when I end I replay the whole thing with the other versions (maybe skipping the only 1 version) so I can play the whole set. I am skipping 1 version now because if not it's not "progression" (after 5 maps, still no tanks).

Yeah, that's fair. Going through the alternate early missions AND the first ones you choose, plus the bonus mission, is seven levels before Combat Tanks on S4V1. x_x The Harkonnen bonus mission is placed at a more convenient time. There are currently three missions in the Harkonnen campaign where Combat Tanks are available: H4V1, bonus, and H5V1. The Harkonnen bonus mission is a good deal longer than the smuggler one, too. :)

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Fey said:

Yeah XD If you take like ten Troopers up to the enemy base, take out a building and then take them out of harm's way, you'll see just how quickly they can clear through a whole base

I usually send groups of 5 troopers against the turret. Sometimes they died because some units are wandering and crash them or attack them, but when that don't happen the turret it's gone.

Now, I kept playing and...

Spoiler

Mission 4: bussines
ALthough I remember the beggining of this map, I forgot how I played the last time. Anyway. I started building some stuff, found the Harkonnen, went to the Ordos when they ask me... I was waiting for that tile revealed trigger, but didn't happen so I explored every tile of the Ordos base just in case until the stuff happen.

Then, I didn't want to have a so close guy being enemy, so I tried to make them happy taking out as many Ordos I could. I did this by sending raiders to the bottom and placing them in the entrance/exit only infantry area. I killed a bunch of the infantry-trooper-grenadier, don't know how many, but like 30 or 40, until the "I am happy happy joy joy" and the rest if story: combined attacks with the Harkonnen and that's it.

Mission 5:
I decided to explore everything, I found the ix, the Harkonnen said something about my mother or something xD, they become agresive early. Good enough for the walls protecting from the combat tanks.
I deployed my base, I fought the Fremen for accident but whatever. The hardests parts from this map was having the harversters under my control. I was trying, but for some reason they like to go to the ref they want :(. At some point I had 3 harversters at the entrance of the refinery in the first base, and the other ref was empty. Nothing can be done there, they have their own brain xD.

The other part was some enemy waves (after the first one). They splitted their forces against my two bases, so I lost a turret here on there, but nothing too hard.

I took 3 turrets by sending some groups of troopers, and then attack a couple of haversters which were doing their stuff so I manage to take out units that came out. From here nothing much to do. I had a group of raiders-grenadiers-infantry to the right entrance (where the barracks there are) and while they were killing a few enemy infantry I send my tanks and quads near that spot, but against the Staport, that was the end for them (destroying the rest was easy).

Ps: You should rename your campaign to "everyone it's neutral campaign" xD. It's hilarious seeing everyone being neutral one way or another. Although sometimes it is difficult to maintain them neutral because any splash damage and the map it's over for you.

Edited by Cm_blast

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Spoiler

Mission 4: bussines
ALthough I remember the beggining of this map, I forgot how I played the last time. Anyway. I started building some stuff, found the Harkonnen, went to the Ordos when they ask me... I was waiting for that tile revealed trigger, but didn't happen so I explored every tile of the Ordos base just in case until the stuff happen.

It didn't happen for a while? That's really weird, it's at the very front of their base. I guess you could sneak some units in there, probably some infantry or a Raider all the way on the side...

Then, I didn't want to have a so close guy being enemy, so I tried to make them happy taking out as many Ordos I could. I did this by sending raiders to the bottom and placing them in the entrance/exit only infantry area. I killed a bunch of the infantry-trooper-grenadier, don't know how many, but like 30 or 40, until the "I am happy happy joy joy" and the rest if story: combined attacks with the Harkonnen and that's it.
It's over pretty quickly after you get an ally with one of the Great Houses. Not only do you no longer have to worry about being attacked by their units, but your mercenary friends will also send a strike force as well. Despite the amount of defenses in either the Ordos or Harkonnen bases and the presence of Combat Tanks, this is probably the shortest mission with Combat Tanks.

Mission 5:
I decided to explore everything, I found the ix, the Harkonnen said something about my mother or something xD, they become agresive early. Good enough for the walls protecting from the combat tanks.
Dey mad! One could also lose that initial base, though it obviously takes longer to set everything up. The plus side is that you don't have to worry about several locations to defend.

I deployed my base, I fought the Fremen for accident but whatever.
That'll happen. They're in an inconvenient spot just to mess with the player since that area you set up in is really secure against Harkonnen attacks, but there are only a few of them.

The hardests parts from this map was having the harversters under my control. I was trying, but for some reason they like to go to the ref they want :(. At some point I had 3 harversters at the entrance of the refinery in the first base, and the other ref was empty. Nothing can be done there, they have their own brain xD.
That sucks. XD I've had good success with the Harvesters by pumping out a couple more whenever I drop a new Refinery. They're also, oddly, not too hard to defend on this map since the Harkonnen like to go straight for the bases. They may attack at the exposed Spice field west of the starting position though.

The other part was some enemy waves (after the first one). They splitted their forces against my two bases, so I lost a turret here on there, but nothing too hard.
Aye, the Medium Gun Turrets on this map are amazingly effective at holding the line. They're also nice assistance during the assault on the enemy base if you get some Engineers or an MCV up there. I love dropping a Repair Pad and a couple of turrets in an enemy base while I'm taking it down.

I took 3 turrets by sending some groups of troopers, and then attack a couple of haversters which were doing their stuff so I manage to take out units that came out. From here nothing much to do. I had a group of raiders-grenadiers-infantry to the right entrance (where the barracks there are) and while they were killing a few enemy infantry I send my tanks and quads near that spot, but against the Staport, that was the end for them (destroying the rest was easy).
So you responded to their split-push with a split-push. :P Nicely done!

Thanks again, Cm! Have fun on 6+. :D

7 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Ps: You should rename your campaign to "everyone it's neutral campaign" xD. It's hilarious seeing everyone being neutral one way or another. Although sometimes it is difficult to maintain them neutral because any splash damage and the map it's over for you.

Wellll, there are neutralities (that aren't with Fremen) on missions S3V1, S3V2, S4V1, and S5V1 while you're mixing it up between the Great Houses. S3V1 is the easiest in that regard with permanent neutrality until you pay the Harkonnen. The Atreides will overpower the Harkonnen eventually if you don't interfere, but it's a really chill mission, especially after either version of S2. S3V2 has a neutral side that is delayed from arriving in-game for fifteen minutes, after which he'll be either an ally or an enemy, and the enemy Atreides are quite aggressive on that map. S4V1's like S3V1, but the player is forced to begin the conflict because of timed segments and will probably be turned on by the Harkonnen unless they fight the Ordos. Finally, S5V1 gives you hardly any time to mess around while neutral since the Harkonnen will utterly destroy the Ix in just one or two attacks. Two or three if they stop to murder the Fremen along the way. And, the more time they have to build up, the harder it'll be to hold your ground since all you start with are infantry and light vehicles. Among those, S3V1 doesn't need too much fighting, S4V1 is a step up, and S3V2 and S5V1 have plenty of fighting to be done. :)

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So, mission 6.

Spoiler

Once again, you fooled me. No, I am not taking about that stuff, I am talking about "good, the time it's running out; let's prepared for that big army or something" *Times runs out, frigate appear, deploy a deviator, leaves* "oh... right... now I remember" xD.

Not too much trouble in the map (Besides that stuff), a sudden attack against my barely defended bottom base but moving the units over there and a couple of turrets were enough to not worry to much.

Also I had already forgotten how expensive the upgrades for the heavy factory are. I decided to wait several minutes before thinking to do them. Anyway; I give a couple of jabs to the Atreides with a few troopers and then I marched with my army after they launched a big attack against the Ordos, so I caught them with not too much units, destroyed the core buildings (ref, CY, factories) and retreat; I grouped the vehicles I had at my base waiting with those wounded units and went against the Harkonnen (which also send a big attack against me and the mercs).

And kill for the win.

 

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Posted (edited)
Spoiler

Once again, you fooled me. No, I am not taking about that stuff, I am talking about "good, the time it's running out; let's prepared for that big army or something" *Times runs out, frigate appear, deploy a deviator, leaves* "oh... right... now I remember" xD.
Oh yeah, the Ordos ordered Ixian prototypes. Once the first ones arrive, they start building more from the Heavy Factory, but otherwise they just order normal stuff from the Starport. Moriaen and Durant both build plenty of units on their own and do some serious damage to the Atreides and Harkonnen, especially if you support them (take out any Siege Tanks you find and see how far their infantry can dig into the bases).

Not too much trouble in the map (Besides that stuff), a sudden attack against my barely defended bottom base but moving the units over there and a couple of turrets were enough to not worry to much.
Yep. This is a pretty open map, so although the enemy will find plenty of stuff to attack at Durant's base, or Moriaen's, they'll occasionally hit you too. The main danger of losing on this map comes from losing Durant's Outpost, which can end up being pretty exposed if he ends up losing his Medium Gun Turrets or any production facilities.

Also I had already forgotten how expensive the upgrades for the heavy factory are. I decided to wait several minutes before thinking to do them.
Indeed. They're meant to be investments, after all! A player begins with enough cash to get an upgrade or two pretty early. In the case of the Heavy Factory, the Siege Tanks on S6V1 are extremely effective defense units for midfield, and then using a few Siege Tanks might be better than spreading infantry all around Durant's base. Although, that's a viable option too.

Anyway; I give a couple of jabs to the Atreides with a few troopers and then I marched with my army after they launched a big attack against the Ordos, so I caught them with not too much units, destroyed the core buildings (ref, CY, factories) and retreat; I grouped the vehicles I had at my base waiting with those wounded units and went against the Harkonnen (which also send a big attack against me and the mercs). And kill for the win.
Sweet! How did taking out the mercs happen? Did you have much of the Atreides / Harkonnen / Imperials to kill after you were done? They can pose a real threat to the Outpost that needs to be protected after you come in and deal some damage, yourself.

Thanks. :)

Oh, by the way, S9V2 may be a liiiittle overtuned at the moment. Or, I might be a little rusty. If you want details on the current build, see below:

Spoiler

Atreides:
First Attack: 15,000
Build Rate: 1,800
Emergency: 1
Tech Level: 5
Changes: Build rate down to 1,200 after Moriaen and Durant arrive. Tech level to 7 at 30,000 tics, enabling Ornithopters, Fedaykin, and Sonic Tanks.

Harkonnen:
First Attack: 22,500
Build Rate: 1,800
Emergency: 1
Tech Level: 5
Changes: Build rate down to 1,200 after Moriaen and Durant arrive. Tech level to 7 at 30,000 tics, enabling Death Hand Missiles and Devastators.

Imperial Primary (S3):
First Attack: 12,500
Build Rate: 1,000
Emergency: 1
Tech Level: 6

Imperial Secondary (S4):
First Attack: 9000
Build Rate: 700
Emergency: 1
Tech Level: 6

Imperial Tertiary (S7):
First Attack: 10,000
Build Rate: 900
Emergency: 300
Tech Level: 6

Smugglers stats:
Starting units: 12 Stealth Raiders, 6 Engineers, 2 Saboteurs.
Start position base: 4 Wind Traps, 1 Heavy Factory, 1 Barracks, 1 Refinery, 1 Repair Pad. 4 entrances... 3 all, 1 infantry-only.
Imperial defenses: 2 Medium Gun Turrets, 2 Large Gun Turrets. 2 Trikes & 5 Sardaukar (2 and 2 on easy mode) dropped via Carryall.
Starting cash: 20,000

Because you get to capture an Imperial Barracks and Heavy Factory, Missile Tanks and Sardaukar are available. 20,000 credits to start also means a LOT of room to tech up, upgrade, pump out Harvesters and Refineries, etc. The Imperial base you need to take is also relatively easy to down, though the Harkonnen, Atreides, and Imperials' other AIs will attack you in the meantime. They probably won't be using Death Hands, Fedaykin, or Ornithopters before you're done, though. If/when you get back to this one, I'd love some suggestions on how I could change up the enemy bases, unit composition, smuggler reinforcements, or whatever if you think it's necessary or warranted. Maybe a few Grenadiers showing up with the MCV you get at the start would help settle the player in to the base.

See ya then!

Edited by Fey

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, I know about that investments. I still prefer using 3000 credits as light infantry than to get my first siege tank (which shoot the enemy trike, failing, then the trike don't stop moving, shoot again and hit my own units that were behind ;_;).

Spoiler
42 minutes ago, Fey said:

How did taking out the mercs happen? Did you have much of the Atreides / Harkonnen / Imperials to kill after you were done? They can pose a real threat to the Outpost that needs to be protected after you come in and deal some damage, yourself.

Not a threat at all. When the stuff happen noone could build a single unit, so was just me, my enemy and the Ordos watching the show xD.

Edited by Cm_blast

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That's fair! They're still pretty nice at the infantry-only entrances, and when you're done with defense you can take them on up to blow through some walls. The Siege Tanks in my mod were buffed a tad, so they do pretty decent damage against a lot of things. Besides structures, walls, and infantry, they can 1v1 Missile Tanks and whittle down massed Combat Tanks fairly decently.

I like to place them behind turrets and walls and just leave them there. They do some real work when left alone in defensible positions... like on S2V1 behind the ridge in the middle of the map!

Spoiler

Not a threat at all. When the stuff happen noone could build a single unit, so was just me, my enemy and the Ordos watching the show xD.
Oh, okay. :P

I just booted up S9V2 on Hard and got my ass handed to me. I guess I am rusty. XD

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Posted (edited)

Uff, when things go hard: mission 7

Spoiler

1 hour 35 minutos of game. I could capture the outpost but I was a bit angry, so destroy destroy destroy.

At the beggining seems really easy. Enemy waves based on raiders and 1 or 2 quads/tanks, but the longer the game goes, the bigger their attacks are; although I manage to take the ref, fact and barracks from the right side, but then I were under siege for a while.

When an enemy wave coming from the two sides at the same time appears and I kill them I was "now it's my time, I can take their harverster and win time this way", but that plan didn't last too long. Attacking the harverster dragged 12 combat tanks, 3 missile tanks and other vehicles. I almost lost the level at that moment, but decided to continue.

Then, I don't know, maybe like 15 minutes of purely defending because there were always 1 wave coming at me. By the time only the Siege tanks from one wave were alive, more raiders and tanks were coming and so on.

Good thing they run out of money (I think), So the map were calm for a while and finally could go inside the left area and took the main buildings from there. Ii was hilarious as I enter the base seeing the starport delivering 5 harverster to the AI.

Overall, I feel that the previous map it's a 4 over 10 in difficulty and this one like 8 over 10. Probably because last map it's a 3 vs 3 while here it's a 1 vs 4 or so, I don't ever know how many of them are togheter. At least I count like 3 starports. Also don't help moving units, stepping on accident on 3 blooms and looking at my light vehicles on yellow/red before even figthing.

My hand it's tired X_X.

Edited by Cm_blast

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Aww man. I'm sorry you had so much trouble with this one, Cm!

Spoiler

1 hour 35 minutos of game. I could capture the outpost but I was a bit angry, so destroy destroy destroy.
Wow. o_O

At the beggining seems really easy. Enemy waves based on raiders and 1 or 2 quads/tanks, but the longer the game goes, the bigger their attacks are; although I manage to take the ref, fact and barracks from the right side, but then I were under siege for a while.
Indeed. The Stealth Raider attacks are meant to harass, but I suppose it would help if I were to reduce the frequency of their stronger AIs' attacks too.

When an enemy wave coming from the two sides at the same time appears and I kill them I was "now it's my time, I can take their harverster and win time this way", but that plan didn't last too long. Attacking the harverster dragged 12 combat tanks, 3 missile tanks and other vehicles. I almost lost the level at that moment, but decided to continue.
Damn! Yeah, Sumadi is the smuggler leader so his economy is pretty darn stable. He's supposed to lack military might... but obviously that's not the case. XD I mean, this is the smugglers' main base on Arrakis. They're supposed to have some numbers, but it sounds overtuned for sure.

Then, I don't know, maybe like 15 minutes of purely defending because there were always 1 wave coming at me. By the time only the Siege tanks from one wave were alive, more raiders and tanks were coming and so on.
Yep, definitely an attack frequency problem. If I reduce the build rate and attack building rate, or sync up the last two AIs, I think that'd help a lot. I'll try it. ^^

Good thing they run out of money (I think), So the map were calm for a while and finally could go inside the left area and took the main buildings from there. Ii was hilarious as I enter the base seeing the starport delivering 5 harverster to the AI.
XD I can't believe the Harvester thing worked! He's supposed to have a really stable economy on this map, but I suppose sticking to it worked out! And, wait, the left base? If I'm not mistaken, that's... hmm, they should build two Harvesters per Refinery, not three...

Overall, I feel that the previous map it's a 4 over 10 in difficulty and this one like 8 over 10. Probably because last map it's a 3 vs 3 while here it's a 1 vs 4 or so, I don't ever know how many of them are togheter. At least I count like 3 starports. Also don't help moving units, stepping on accident on 3 blooms and looking at my light vehicles on yellow/red before even figthing.
There are four Starports on the map. The first one, you capture right away. :D As a smuggler, I wanted three things from Sumadi: Starports, Solaris, and stealth attacks. Evidently, the normal build-rate is a tad high considering how he also orders vehicles from several Starports, but I'll see about fixing that.

Indeed, there are four main enemy AIs on this map. Two are supposed to be easily defeated, with the last two bunkered up together and supporting each-other at the top (with three base entrances though, so that hopefully helped you break on through sooner).

I dunno if you noticed, but I try to keep Spice blooms out of the way for the most part. That cluster of blooms near the north base is one notable exception for this map, acting not only as a mine-field while you're trying to take that base, but also becoming a very defensible expansion location. This is something I believe should be kept since the starting area runs out of Spice quite quickly. It makes the east base a very appealing target.

Needless to say, I'll have a look at the map structure and sort this out according to the above hypotheses. If you have any other, specific suggestions, lemme know! I'm sorry about your hand, by the way. :) Thanks again for testing!

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Posted (edited)

I am prepared for the 2 hour longs mission 8 and 9.

Spoiler
7 hours ago, Fey said:

The Stealth Raider attacks are meant to harass, but I suppose it would help if I were to reduce the frequency of their stronger AIs' attacks too.

I don't mean those. Those were annoying but I placed a turret in the right side and then another near my CY and I forgot about them. I mean the traditional attacks. At least two of them only have the light factory and barracks, so the first 2-3 waves were light vehicle based. 

As soon as the AI start using the Staport tanks enter the games too.

7 hours ago, Fey said:

They're supposed to have some numbers, but it sounds overtuned for sure.

To me, the starport it's the unstable building for an AI in this game. Sometimes they don't order anything until 20 minutes of game or more, other times they use it as soon as they can... when he don't buy stuff and then start doing it, 4 combat tanks first delivery, 3 missile tanks the second, other light vehicles in the three order, and that's it, 12 units in 3 minutes.

7 hours ago, Fey said:

And, wait, the left base? If I'm not mistaken, that's... hmm, they should build two Harvesters per Refinery, not three...

He lost 1 harv, or maybe 2, but anyway, it's not the first time I saw an AI doing a 5 harverster order. To me it's a good thing they do that, he used 5000 credits on harverter that didn't could really use because I took production buildings.

7 hours ago, Fey said:

There are four Starports on the map.

well, I am not counting the first one xD. You always can control what he recieve through the starport, for example removing him to buy stuff and instead giving 2 Stealth raider every 5000 ticks to at least 2 of the staports, letting the one to the top buying what he wants.

The only thing it's the starport thing. the AI never play the same in two games. He can buy stuff from the beggining (so he empty the order pool spreading the units on the attacks) or he takes 15-20 minutes before the first order, so he start using plenty of money and recieve plenty of units in a short time.

Edited by Cm_blast

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Spoiler

I am prepared for the 2 hour longs mission 8 and 9.
Hopefully not! S8V1 has an easier start than S7V1, I think. S9V2... perhaps. S9V1 is way easier than S9V2. :P

I don't mean those. Those were annoying but I placed a turret in the right side and then another near my CY and I forgot about them. I mean the traditional attacks. At least two of them only have the light factory and barracks, so the first 2-3 waves were light vehicle based. As soon as the AI start using the Staport tanks enter the games too.
Oh, yeah.

To me, the starport it's the unstable building for an AI in this game. Sometimes they don't order anything until 20 minutes of game or more, other times they use it as soon as they can... when he don't buy stuff and then start doing it, 4 combat tanks first delivery, 3 missile tanks the second, other light vehicles in the three order, and that's it, 12 units in 3 minutes.
S7V1 has consistently been one of the most RNG maps in the campaign. Aside from the Starport stuff there's also that damn worm. I hate that worm...

He lost 1 harv, or maybe 2, but anyway, it's not the first time I saw an AI doing a 5 harverster order. To me it's a good thing they do that, he used 5000 credits on harverter that didn't could really use because I took production buildings.
Hah. :P

well, I am not counting the first one xD. You always can control what he recieve through the starport, for example removing him to buy stuff and instead giving 2 Stealth raider every 5000 ticks to at least 2 of the staports, letting the one to the top buying what he wants.
Aye, I guess I could screw around with the events to do that. I might need to remove some events...

Thanks for the ideas, Cm. I'll see what I can do. :) Good luck on S8 / S9.

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Posted (edited)

Mission 8 done.

Spoiler

Definitely more easy than mission 7, and much more easy than the last time I played, but now that I see their morale it isn't 100 I am lucky this time I didn't sacrifice as many units as the last time.

Overall not too much problems. Ordos taking out a bit the enemy buildings, me taking turrets with troopers, letting the AI to expand with no much trouble and etc.

Lots of enemies died outside his base against Ordos or my units, and the Mercs took advantage of the situation taking out imperial refinery and more.

Oh, I forgot. When I played the first mission (S1v1), the sandworm barely move from that corner. I forgot to ask if that it's inteniontal or not.

That's it, probably tomorrow will play mission 9, but version 1, I don't want to encounter that overtuned mission yet xD. Maybe by the time I play the other versions you make that 2º version more easy :P.

Edited by Cm_blast

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5 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Mission 8 done.

  Hide contents

Definitely more easy than mission 7, and much more easy than the last time I played, but now that I see their morale it isn't 100 I am lucky this time I didn't sacrifice as many units as the last time.

Overall not too much problems. Ordos taking out a bit the enemy buildings, me taking turrets with troopers, letting the AI to expand with no much trouble and etc.

Lots of enemies died outside his base against Ordos or my units, and the Mercs took advantage of the situation taking out imperial refinery and more.

Oh, I forgot. When I played the first mission (S1v1), the sandworm barely move from that corner. I forgot to ask if that it's inteniontal or not.

That's it, probably tomorrow will play mission 9, but version 1, I don't want to encounter that overtuned mission yet xD. Maybe by the time I play the other versions you make that 2º version more easy :P.

Great!

Spoiler

Aye, glad that happened. :P

Great! Aye, the Imperials will cover the Atreides and Fremen unless taken out first, but they're not too big a threat you can't bum-rush the Sietches. The Sardaukar and Fremen Warriors on this map are extremely common compared to every other map with either faction present, so I hope they were fun!

How did setting up with the mercs go? They show up pretty early, and did you take Moriaen's advice and expand to the rock north of Durant's position or just cover him with some units? And after he was up, he and the Ordos really kick the butt of everyone else on the map, huh? :P

Ah, yes, thank you for reminding me. That worm is attempting to go after the Imperial MCV which has to be on the ground from the start for the AI to not sell everything they've got as soon as they deploy. I need to place a rock or something right there so that MCV doesn't keep attracting the worm.

Hey, I need some testing to figure out what I could fix about S9V2 without breaking the general concept or gameplay! You don't necessarily have to beat the map, it's just the beginning (before Ordos and mercs arrive) that's screwy. And I'm positive it wouldn't be too hard on easy mode, at least!

If you don't want to try it, that's alright and I'll keep workin' on it from what I can see. If you do, you know what needs testing! :)

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8 hours ago, Fey said:

How did setting up with the mercs go? They show up pretty early, and did you take Moriaen's advice and expand to the rock north of Durant's position or just cover him with some units? And after he was up, he and the Ordos really kick the butt of everyone else on the map, huh? :P

Only covered with units. They didn't need too much help, at that moment the Ordos and myself were in a rampage mode and took most of the fremen base. Then, as I said, Imperials were out of his base, dieing at Ordos or my, so the Mercs send and attack against the unprotected imperial base and that's it. I think they didn't have time to a second attack, or maybe yes, I don't remember, Ordos and me were taking out everybody.

However, Have you think about giving your allies a 100 of morale to never stop attacking even if the player (or other allies) died tons of units? Last time I played the map Ordos stop attacking after my attack on the first imperial base because I was messing a lot and lost like 50 units in a short time.

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Oh, is that what the morale does? Yeah, I should do that for sure.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Fey said:

Oh, is that what the morale does? Yeah, I should do that for sure.

Yes, the morale attackbuilding affect the ally/es from that side. I still don't know if the type of unit depend on the value (loosing 1 devastator = 1 infantry, or = 100 infantry), and don't know if killing affects something, but it's sure that if you have 2 Ais with 50 morale AB, as soon as one start to loose several units, the other refrain from attacks.

Once I ever see an AI retreating. I remember I created 2 AIs with similar numbers (or the same) and a 50 of morale. They both build fast and attacking with quick successions and I placed to myself multiple turrets and siege tanks.

Both Ai attacked twice, but in the third wave only 1 AI fully lost the wave, the second one in mid attack (lost the light vehicles, the heavy were still on his way) started to retreat his units into his own base. From this point only the first AI continue to launch waves at me. (Since I had turrets I never loose units, probably that affect to, can't tell for sure).

You can check in the original Ordos campaign how the mercenaries have their morale always to 100. This way they never get affected by how many units the player loose.

Edited by Cm_blast

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Fascinating! Thank you for sharing that. I'll be sure to look into the Harkonnen missions too and fix up any allies the player has. :)

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I played for one hour, and so far, on mission nine version 1:

Spoiler

Loosing the game is indeed hard. Being behind everyone makes it easier for you to neglect the defense of your own base. At the end I build a few Rocket turrets because the thopters are annoing. Loosing a windtrap or two I don't mind, but they kept killing my group of infantry =(.

Overall I am trying to attack alongside with my partner (mostly Ordos). I manage to take "easily" the Harkonne, thanks to that only-infantry entrance, doing as much damage as I can. At the end the whole deal were "I took your heavy factory. Oh, you rebuild it... well, I took it again"; after the fifth time or so they finally run out of resources and could go and take the refineries (I took the palace early too, so cutting more damage from there).

Also, I destroyed the Atreides Staport by using Stealth Raiders, like a dozen of them. I waited until the Atreides attacked (and come after me when I shoot their harverster as a diversion) so finally, I destroyed that thing (also the sietch, although I not even sure what affect the game that. I assuming they can't train more fremen, but I don't knows.

At this point I saved after my last attempt to take out for good the Harkonnen. however seems that the imperials are too near (or they share pieces of land), When I saw like 8 combat tanks, 5 missile tanks and other units coming at me I run away and instead went against the right Imperial base.

I could got to entry that imperial base and took out the Starport. I still don't know if he can rebuild something, but the amount of damage it's not lightly and I hope the Ordos movilize against him to take the rest of the buildings.
And that's it. I saved at this moment (like 1 hour 5-10 minutos of gameplay); still some work to do before I can eliminated the main Imperial base, the two(?) Atreides Bases and the second imperial one.

Will depend of the units that the Imperials are grouping nonstop, but I hope in 30 more minutes I can finish the campaign Already.

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4 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

I played for one hour, and so far, on mission nine version 1:

  Hide contents

Loosing the game is indeed hard. Being behind everyone makes it easier for you to neglect the defense of your own base. At the end I build a few Rocket turrets because the thopters are annoing. Loosing a windtrap or two I don't mind, but they kept killing my group of infantry =(.

Overall I am trying to attack alongside with my partner (mostly Ordos). I manage to take "easily" the Harkonne, thanks to that only-infantry entrance, doing as much damage as I can. At the end the whole deal were "I took your heavy factory. Oh, you rebuild it... well, I took it again"; after the fifth time or so they finally run out of resources and could go and take the refineries (I took the palace early too, so cutting more damage from there).

Also, I destroyed the Atreides Staport by using Stealth Raiders, like a dozen of them. I waited until the Atreides attacked (and come after me when I shoot their harverster as a diversion) so finally, I destroyed that thing (also the sietch, although I not even sure what affect the game that. I assuming they can't train more fremen, but I don't knows.

At this point I saved after my last attempt to take out for good the Harkonnen. however seems that the imperials are too near (or they share pieces of land), When I saw like 8 combat tanks, 5 missile tanks and other units coming at me I run away and instead went against the right Imperial base.

I could got to entry that imperial base and took out the Starport. I still don't know if he can rebuild something, but the amount of damage it's not lightly and I hope the Ordos movilize against him to take the rest of the buildings.
And that's it. I saved at this moment (like 1 hour 5-10 minutos of gameplay); still some work to do before I can eliminated the main Imperial base, the two(?) Atreides Bases and the second imperial one.

Will depend of the units that the Imperials are grouping nonstop, but I hope in 30 more minutes I can finish the campaign Already.

Phew!

Spoiler

Yep. S9V1 allows a much more offensive sort of gameplay. And that sucks about the Ornithopters XD They do like to take groups of infantry out. Hopefully all that scouting you did at the beginning of the map helped you spot a few strikes!

Aye, there are a lot of juicy targets in really easy spots on this map. The Harkonnen base in particular can lose its Starport, Heavy Factory, Palace, and even the Refineries all from infantry-only attacks, assuming you distract them at their base entrance. And, most of the enemy structures are behind walls, not cliffs, so there're a whole lot of options on avenues of attack.

Nice. :P Stealth Raiders are amazing harassment units, I love 'em. And yes, possession of a Sietch allows one to train Fremen Warriors. Speaking of which, how do you turn a Sietch into a Barracks, again? So the Fremen come out of the Sietch? I think I wanna see how that looks.

Yes, the Imperials are set to defend both the Harkonnen and the Atreides on this map unless the two Medium Gun Turrets at the east base are taken out. Basically if that base is lost then the Imperials are like "Nope!" and they head back home. In addition, once the entire eastern Imperial base is taken out, side 4 has just enough power with the two Wind Traps south of the west base to power the five Large Gun Turrets around the western Imperial base. I think I could adjust this layout in particular a little more...

Aside from the Medium Gun Turrets at the eastern Imperial base, they cannot rebuild anything.

Aye, all the enemy bases are tiered. The Atreides and Harkonnen each have one AI, but two tiers of bases. The Atreides secondary base is a little further away than the Harkonnen bases are from each-other. The Imperials have two AIs, each in each-other's bases. One of them can't rebuild any structures and possesses all the Imperial Large Gun Turrets.

They should stop grouping once you take out the east base. Good luck!

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Fey said:

Speaking of which, how do you turn a Sietch into a Barracks, again? So the Fremen come out of the Sietch?

It's really easy. In Tibed there is a building called "Fremen Barracks", which it's the Sietch. The only thing needed to change that it's "Buildingbehaviour" from Sietch to Barrack and that's it. The Sietch will act as a traditional barracks.

Now, placing a Sietch with the editor the game will crash because there isn't anymore a building with a behaviour of "Sietch". You need to use the normal barracks instead.

By default the Sietch it's owned by the Fremen side, so you need to place with the editor a barracks with the Fremen Index to make it work.

Making the Sietch owned by Atreides maybe doesn't work because the game will take the original Atreides version (CAn't tell for sure, but the game will only use one, probably based in the order of the internal index the game has for the building).

So in short. If you want the Sietch to be able to train units, the building behaviour need to change to "Barrack" and in the editor using "barrack" (not sietch) with a index of 4.

Check this post, you can download the Raw Tibed file just to know exactly what I did.
https://forum.dune2k.com/topic/27512-sharing-my-editions-with-tibed/
(Those Fremen are wild).

This in an image from my "Ix" campaign; here I did the transformation.
 Those are barracks but with index=4 they turn into Sietchs in game (but maybe in your maps you already used everyside available for Ais or trigger events. That could be a problem.

Of course, Fremen "unit" need to be owner by Fremen, but I think if both Atreides and Fremen are the owner both can train it while their have barracks "both buildins will be barracks".

At least maybe you still can use this for those map with 2 spawning fremen from Sietchs. You have a trigger to spawn 2 Fremen if they are killed. Instead you can trigger an event to give to the AI X credits when he lost all the units, so he spend those credits to train 2 Fremen but nothing more... stuff like that.

Returning to the campaing, took me another 30 minutes or so (I was afk for 10 minutes, so I'm guessing the time here) to finish it. While I deal with the right side Ordos and Mercs reduced Imperial numbers. Then destroying the rest of the Atreides it's really easy because with his base scatered the Atreides keep dieing outside his base.

And that's it. Not too much trouble. Only the Ordos were having lots of problem grouping units. They depleted all the spice near his base so they build units much slowly (and weak attacks).

By the way; if I am not mistaked the limit from spice blooms it's 32, maybe you can try to remove 1 couple of blooms just to give the Ordos a way to rebloom his spice (sometimes the blooms disappear for no reason, but with more than 32 the ones in the bottom stop to appear if there are active blooms on the top of the map.

Edited by Cm_blast

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