I chanllenge anyone to create a map that I can't win

[outofmage]

I know this is arrogent, but I have really never seen a map that I can't win. Sometimes I just need to take a glance in the editor, I know exactly how I can win the gold prize, so that I don't even have the motive to start actually playing it. I sincerely want someone to make a truely difficult map to make a chanllenge for me. 

[loco_motive]

You're so funny. Its so easy to write an unbeatable gold trigger, or for many existing scenarios, an incorrect gold trigger, ie, that won't trigger. I can't really tell what you're looking for here but hopefully for a legitimate play challenge.

 

But lets get back to reality, shall we.

 

Have you ever tried either of my Heartland maps? Another you might try is Nick Bennett's Cascadia. If this proves too easy for you, you might try to complete it with his original plan to include Warm Springs as the 3rd depot. Another you could try is Dave Gross's Twelve Days of Christmas.

 

You might also try a couple of my fewest trains scenarios (search fewest trains and the threads should both pop up), namely TSC campaign #5, Trans-Siberian, with 3 trains and #16, Island of Hope, with 3 trains.

 

Heartland Auto & Heartland Heaven can be found at Hawk & Badger in NA section.  Heartland Heaven thread is still here and the download link apparently now works. I suggest you try to beat my game results rather that the somewhat easy gold conditions.

 

Cascadia can be found here and at Hawk's in NA section. If this proves too easy for you, I can post the harder version including Warm Springs if you ask for it and I happen to pass by.

 

Twelve Days can be found here in Europe section. Even though Hawk did a fairly comprehensive amalgamation of The Terminal's maps several years ago, I could not find it there. This is one as I recall, you will definitely need to study the events in the editor beforehand to have any chance of winning.

[jeffryfisher]

I can't recall, but have you actually gotten gold with Mexico as your home on my US History map? As a Southern-US company?

 

For North, South and Canada, the challenges are mostly endurance and flexibility (although a Southern player unaware of history could easily be wiped off the map by the Civil War). Even so, there are some taxes and regulations that can trip up an unwary player who grows fat in the easy early days of "the golden age" of robber barons. You can't assume that having a billion dollars in 1901 means that you will still have a billion in 2001.

 

The most difficult is having Mexico as a home base, and starting in the earliest recommended year for Mexico (I think it's 1844) is devilishly tricky. Even bronze and silver become significant hurdles that have stymied the most experienced players here, and missing either of the intermediate goals forecloses the opportunity for gold. Early Mexico is winnable, but it takes some very careful planning and downright prescient knowledge of the historical events that are stacked up in front of you.

 

No matter what home you choose, the US History map takes work to win. What other map drags you through 180 game-years and nearly every locomotive in the game before you can collect your gold?

[MaglevForever]

As has been pointed out, there are always many ways to make the games more difficult than intended. Before I found all the user created maps I challenged myself with the NYC to LA scenario. The standard scenario is too easy. The Tampa connection bonus makes it really easy. I, however, made it more difficult for myself. I played on hardest possible settings with 31 AI players. I started in Chicago. I only used electric track (full cost) and high speed engines (Thayls and Eurostar). If you are bored, try it sometime. To start out with a Thayls you need to hire Ernest Siemens so don't use Jeffery's mod which made him a top of the line manager. Crashes can set you back literally years with these expensive engines!

 

I also believe that the "US at the Crossroads" map is a challenge. For me, anyway. I am not one of those who likes to use dirty tactics like taking over companies just to bankrupt them (bulldozing track pieces or such like). I almost made it through to a win, but was eaten up by a large debt load. If you are really insane you could try to finish it debt free. That is an impossible goal for me.

 

If you try these I hope you enjoy them. I can totally understand that scenario creators do not want to make their games impossible for most people to win. Also, many  creators (especially of the ordinary maps) seem to be a little less expert than player-only types (even if it just involves less practice at actually playing). I think that they are probably unaware of some of the advanced ways that you play. How can they force you not to do things that they don't know are possible?

[outofmage]

loco, I just downloaded Cascadia, and read the events. As I read, I realized this map is actually a remarkable master piece. Not only for the amazing details of the map(did he make this from scrach or from image?), but also he carefully blocked all the tricks I can do in the stock market. This forces me to play this map honestly.  The placement of the essensial industries, adjustment of cargo prices, port trade, demand in supply depots of minitary along with the "goods for rail" combined together result in a distinguished industry map in cascadia. I have never seen someone using these simple triggers to create such an outstanding cargo system, it's logical, realistic and quite challenging. This map is also balanced in plain and mountains, which makes loco selection another intersting deal; balanced in political events, not too much to annoy you but you always know there are people watching you; not too long, 40 years is ordinary; adjusted in track building, maint, fuel, loco speed etc. to make it not that difficult and pretend it's scaled down. Over all, I love this map, I think if Pop Top wait another year for Platium Edition, this map should be counted in the 50-map seletion. I am very excited to start to play this map and I shall enjoy it. Thank you for your suggestion, loco! 

 

Also, I want to translate this map into Chinese. Should I get the permittion from the author, or it is fine as long as I re-upload here? Can I public the translated version on other websites or forums?

[loco_motive]

I pleases me to say that it was remarks made by myself that caused Nick to write the fantastic supply chains in this scenario. I would also say that among doable scenarios, this may be the hardest one, even without a third depot in Warm Springs. I still have my review from April 1, 2001 from CeeBee's old site in my files. Nick thought my win was an April Fool's joke lol! Wow, I can't believe it was that long ago!

 

If your play leads to exciting thoughts, etc, I would think it would be commendable to start a new thread for it with a good searchable title, Good luck in you play.

 

I don't think anyone besides yourself would actually give such a hard scenario a play, so I wouldn't think it was worth translating for anyone but yourself. But if you can't get hold of Nick, I'm sure you wouldn't get in any trouble as long as you give him proper credit for the scenario and of course distribute it completely free of charge.

 

Nick has written a few other scenarios, they are easier but very well done and well worth playing. My forte was playtesting and suggesting improvements/fixes but I believe all his maps were made from scratch. They are:

Cascadia, Oregon and Empire, Renewed Zealand, That Toddlin' Town.

 

I don't know your play history, but even so I recommend a couple other maps with a degree of difficulty, 2 similar but very different ones that cover the same general territory, namely John Schwarz's KVR251 and Joe Fitzpatrick's Kootenay to Coast.

 

There are other maps and other authors worth playing because they are just plain good.

[MaglevForever]

Loco, I would love a harder version of Cascadia. Last play I had a few spare years, so I would love the extra challenge.

 

This is one of the best maps that I have played. I love the way that the game keeps you engaged. Not some simple massive CBV or PNW goals. I like KVR251 too. Not quite so difficult and the stock market is open for massive manipulation, but still good. These scenarios are quality. Much better than most of the originals. Will have to try Kootenay to Coast.

 

Do you go on Hawk's site? Some of Oilcan's scenarios for RT3 are quality too. They make the game interesting instead of the original industry-based, sit back and watch the trains version.

 

Right now I am trying to get through Remember America by starting a company, buying back stock, selling out, and then simply being an outside investor. I made it to 18 million one play, but the AI can't make any money on this map. On that play, I owned all stock at the end of the third year. If only the AI could be steady earners it would be easy, but they only sometimes make money even in boom times.

 

Maybe you could make a list of some of the other maps which are "just plain good"? A thread perhaps? Thanks.

[loco_motive]

A "just plain good" list? I should just upload my old incomplete Excel list of 483 maps, most of them with my comments. Unfortunately some of the comments would put me in the bad graces of the community, but the worksheet becomes pretty meaningless without them, and I am not inclined to go through and edit them.

 

I will start a Cascadia thread and upload that requested map though.

[MaglevForever]

Thanks, loco.

 

I am about to give up on my original goal on Remember America. I just made it to 22 million in the seventh year. But there is something really destructive about the way the AI is playing. After 8 years of game time AI companies are redirecting their trains from the more sensible starting routes to long ones often 80% of them on the longest possible route. I think that the AI was programmed to do this to try to earn more money. It works well in the early game periods, but it is plain suicide in this scenario. I am not doing repeated buying/selling with a stock discount manager. I think that might just give one the edge to take the win without touching station, track, or engines. That feels like cheating though.

[outofmage]

loco, it seems you have been here for a long time, and you must have talked to some of the map creaters. Since most of the maps here are designed and uploaded before 2002, and I just discovered this forum like one year ago, so I can't tell among the total hundreds of maps, which ones are worth playing, because the rating system is basically not functional anymore. Before you pointed out Cascadia, I used to assume that all the good maps have already been selected by PopTop and used them as platium edition maps. So, just like Meglev, I want you to recommand some good maps for us.

 

You mentioned other Nick's maps, and John Schwarz's KVR251, Joe Fitzpatrick's Kootenay to Coast. After I finish Cascadia I'll definately try them. I am in the 10th year of Cascadia, I will post my experience in your new Cascadia thread later.

 

Back to my intention of traslating Cascadia. I am quite sure that it would be popular among my Chinese fellows if I traslate it properly, you may not be aware of that there are still a group of people playing RRTII in China. We got a forum running too, and they yen for new chanllenges. Difficulty is not an issue, some of the players are quite experienced, besides we can adjust the revenue modifier, or try silver or bronze prize if it's too hard. When I publish it, I will definately put proper credit for Nick. If you can tell me how I can get touch with him, I will be appreciated. I think I should give him a note about my intention of translating and re-distribute his work. It's forcasted to be rainy this weekend, it's time for Railroad Tycoon!

 

loco mentioned that he does not know my playing history. I believe we will keep meeting on this forum for quite some time, so I think it's time to do a personal introduce about me along with my way of RRTII. I can't remember when exactly I began playing RRT. I was very young, like 14 or 15 between 2001-2003. The RRTII Chinese version is published in 2000, both original and the second century, the gold and platium version is never introduced or translated. I started with TSC, I can't even remember my skill level back then. I got the platium version in 2010 when I went to Australia for college. My English was poor back then, so I stick with TSC Chinese version for a while, but I quickly began to try the new maps in platium. In the last 3 years, starting from my blurred memory from childhood, I improved quickly, I've collected about 10GB of game savings from both TSC Chinese and Platium English after thousands of hours of playing, also my English is getting better and better during the stay in Melbourne, so I played more and more on map-rich and bug-less Platium Edition. So far, I have won every gold in campaign and stand-alone scenario except half of the platium maps, but I am confident to say I can get gold from the rest of the maps. Of course I chanllenge myself, I like massive companies, I try to ship every cargo on the map, try to reach the highest profit as possible for the whole map, currently my record is 300 million yearly operational profit(profit minus insterest) on North America. I'm not sure if I was the only one to see $ErrorK on the display of money. Also, I am an expert in stock manipulation, I can accumulate a few million PNW or 10-20 million CBV in the first year using a method I created called "holding the last hand of stock", I always wanted to post this method here, but I don't have enough time. With this kind of quick start I managed to win some big number requirement quickly. Like Heartland USA, I got 80 million CBV in 3 years and 1 month. Recently I just got bored, don't know which kind of play can stimulate my passion back to this game, but you, loco, saved me.

[loco_motive]

outofmage,  interesting post. Good to know you.

 

Does your moniker, outofmage, have some special derivation or meaning? I note it is searchable for some RRT2 videos. 

 

So would it be possible for you to select one of the better original Chinese scenarios and do perhaps the minimal amount of translation for it to be playable in English? No worries; a young fellow like you has a life to lead.

 

PS: If you really want to get in touch with Nick Bennett, there is an email address in his note in the Cascadia attachment in the other thread, if its still good.

[Gwizz]

I have sent him a note twice but have received no replies from Australia .  Maybe he moved to the out-back.  8)