opinions, guys?

[random guy]

I got some ideas for an RTS game and decided to start learning how to make it... I know it will take a huge amount of time and probably won't be any good, but i'm ok with that. The only real problem, aside from resources, is its lack of originality. During design process , I noticed many similarities with existing games, mostly Starcraft and C&C. I tried to avoid them and here's what i came up with:

(this is only a part of an excel sheet where I wrote stuff that comes to my mind, i'm currently on android so i cant copy all of that)

capturing neutral facilities grants resources, energy, radar access, turret access or unique powerful units (or improved standard units)

captured facilities can be recaptured by the enemy so they need to be guarded

buildings require addons and/or support structures to train advanced units (classic tech tree)

buildings construct and repair without workers

base centers are portable, but extremely slow an risky to move

repair/healing centers for vehicles and aircraft/infantry

resources are collected from upgradeable "refineries" or mines built on top of them, workers are assigned to carry them to resource depositories

resources in form of mineral patches with 1 or more mineral types (minerals must be concepted in a way that each race can make use of them)

resources in form of pools of (not necessarily) green fluid

destroying a resource facility takes away all resources that were inside and "spills" them so they must be recollected, and saved from enemy

ground, air and possibly naval warfare

buildings are first constructed then placed on map, all needed resources taken immediately (when construction starts), same goes for units

buildings that are not needed anymore can be recycled

turrets, specific support buildings and using superweapons require power

turrets can be upgraded with addons that affect damage and firerate, addons require additional power

addons remain after building is destroyed

power is provided initially by base center, and later on by reactors which are separate buildings and by capturing support structures

power provided at the beginning only allows basic defense

buidings are constructed at the base center and additional construction yards which allow constructing multiple buildings at the same time

there are reactors of higher tech level which are more expensive but produce more power, lower tech level reactors can be leveled up at smaller cost

there are variations of resources which are rare but more valuable, they differ in colour

spilt resources can only be recollected by placing multifunctional extractors as they are mixed when depository is destroyed

(not sure about this) infantry upgrade facility has infantry heal addon, same for vehicles, but aircraft are repaired at addon to their production facility first decide how units will be upgraded

in multifunctional extractor player chooses to focus on one resource type

resources are sometimes found as primary mixed with secndary (crystals in a pool of fluid), they are collected by multifunctional extractors which are bigger and more expensive

turrets built on top of resource depositories are merged with them, meaning they cant be destroyed first

resource depositories can be upgraded to support turret placement on top of them, increasing hit points significantly and providing additional protection

base center trains miners and repair drones

higher tech level multi purpose refineries allow simultaneous collection of both primary and secondary resources

neutral facilties (line 1) include small, self-sufficient structures that slowly grant small amounts of resources

repair drones are weak and unarmed (like miners), they speed up building, vehicle and aircraft repairs but slightly increase repair cost

if unit repair station idea is implemented, repair drones could be assigned to work at them

***resources will always be transferred to base center when its not full (priority over depositories)***

workers can be transferred to other extractors

***forget bull...t fat above, all types of resources are mined by placing a refinery and assigning limited number of workers to them, they are constantly garrisoned, no refinery-base route***

***when base can not hold additional resources depositories are built and player chooses which depository will be used by which refinery, they must not be at unreasonable distance***

***passive collecting, discrete spending http://www.oxeyegames.com/rts-game-play-part-2-resource-systems/

(not sure about this) support building where repair drones can be assigned to speed up overall building repairs, optional, not primary purpose

size and capacity of an extractor depends of fesource size and tech level

extremely powerful "titan" units, huge, unique, expensive and slow to build, with unique abilities, constructed with a side building that garrisons drones to speed up construction

titan units are visible to all players while being constructed

mobile deployable turrets

long battles (high hit points, low attack damage)

Note: this is only a part of the concept, as I couldn't copy all of it. As you can see, the focus is placed less on collecting resources and more on construction, upgrading, battle and protecting collected resources. Many ideas here may sound stupid and/or unoriginal to you and that's perfectly fine. I actually wrote this in one night. Thank you for being patient enough for reading this huge post. Looking forward to your comments and suggestions.

[X3M]

I support your courage in attempting such a thing as creating a RTS all by yourself.

And welcome to this forum.

 

I will give opinions later on each subject. But first a summary opinion.

If you want to be original. Make a map of each game and how they do things.

 

The resource management example:

Starcraft collects 2 resources with a small worker type, 2 to 3 per patch is needed.

C&C Dawn collects 1 resource with a big worker type, 1 per patch is needed (or it can't regrow).

Age of Empires collects 4 resources with a small worker type, about a maximum of 8 for rocks, gold, berries and (?)wood. And the fields only 1 worker.

etc etc.

There is also difference in depletion, infinity, and infinity that can be depleted or get low.

I have named 3 games, you can add more. Make a table and check boxes. This gives you an idea of what is used a lot and what not.

This also might give you an idea of an combination of factors that hasn't been used yet. As example, 1 and 2 are used, 2 and 3 are used. So now it is the turn to 1 and 3.

 

ps.

If you make lists, make them obvious lists. People will be willing to read them if they know it's a list. Long posts indeed intend to be TLDR posts. So I make use of lists and spoilers. (And should continue with it too)

 

Even though I give opinions. It would be wise to start out with a simple RTS first. So you get a feeling of how to make RTS in the first place. Make a Dune2 or C&C or SC clone. Learn from it. Then add your own idea's on the basis.

 

I have seen how my cousin wanted everything in his game. The result was that it never happened. To much to start with. Make a plan on how to learn things. Make a basis that is complete. Then add things to completion every step. Make sure each step is correct.

 

I did the same with my board game. Each step was completed and tested. Until I was happy. You also will discover that sometimes, you need to rethink another step after adding 1. If you do everything at the same time, you loose focus on what you need to adjust. Just saying.

---

 

 

I got some ideas for an RTS game and decided to start learning how to make it... I know it will take a huge amount of time and probably won't be any good, but i'm ok with that. The only real problem, aside from resources, is its lack of originality. During design process , I noticed many similarities with existing games, mostly Starcraft and C&C. I tried to avoid them and here's what i came up with:
(this is only a part of an excel sheet where I wrote stuff that comes to my mind, i'm currently on android so i cant copy all of that)

Of course, they are the shiny versions of the games where it all started with. Don't worry about that, if you want to do something different than those games. You probably end up with a different genre.

 

The following is positive criticism. I don't think of a whole picture here, since I don't know yours yet. I have treated them each separately.

 

capturing neutral facilities grants resources, energy, radar access, turret access or unique powerful units (or improved standard units)
This sound familiar to me. Some players might like it, not all I am afraid.

 

captured facilities can be recaptured by the enemy so they need to be guarded
Obvious, duh. But a good thing. No need to mention it, people think of it as a given fact these days.

 

buildings require addons and/or support structures to train advanced units (classic tech tree)
YES, I support this fact. But it also has to be balanced. If structure builds unit A for 400, and the structures has, lets say, 3 times the cost of that unit. So 1200. And you want to build unit B as well. There are several ways to approach this, but each race and structure gets the same treatment. So, if unit B costs 600. You can see this as an addition of 200. Or an addition of 600. Perhaps the middle, 400. Best would be, the structure has to become 50% more expensive, so the addition of 200. And unit A now is produced 50% faster too. It sounds weird, but is the most logic. The more expensive a building is, the faster it produces units.

 

buildings construct and repair without workers

Uhm, you mean you can order to repair, like in C&C? And can place a structure "instantly" after producing? In my opinion, this is old. However, if you do the placement like in KKND, then you construct without workers, but it still takes time. Enemy units can harass the structure that is in development.

 

base centers are portable, but extremely slow an risky to move

What kind of game are we looking at? Estimated technology time? Technology modifications? Alien technology added?

Because I can't give an opinion yet about this. I always disliked it, and saw it as a form of a huge advantage. Think like this, would players take the risk? If there is no risk, they have a 100% bonus in this. They only make sure that there is 100% in this, or else they wont do it. It's a part of balancing. Will players do it anyway?

 

repair/healing centers for vehicles and aircraft/infantry

This is nice.

 

resources are collected from upgradeable "refineries" or mines built on top of them, workers are assigned to carry them to resource depositories

Warcraft 2 :D

resources in form of mineral patches with 1 or more mineral types (minerals must be concepted in a way that each race can make use of them)

If you want to be original and "realistic", put the minerals in the ground or as a layer in the side of some mountains. I have not seen that yet in RTS. (Minecraft has this perfectly done). It doesn't have to be too deep. But you can "destroy" them. Dig them out. And each can have it's own depth or gathering rate. You also can add sizes.

resources in form of pools of (not necessarily) green fluid

C&C :D

 

destroying a resource facility takes away all resources that were inside and "spills" them so they must be recollected, and saved from enemy

Yes, this is "realistic".

 

ground, air and possibly naval warfare

Of course, and you also might introduce sub terrain and space if you are @ it.

 

buildings are first constructed then placed on map, all needed resources taken immediately (when construction starts), same goes for units

C&C production style with SC payment style. There are many games like this already.

 

buildings that are not needed anymore can be recycled

Obvious. Make a good decision on recycling value. I have seen many attempts. 20-30% is not worth it. 40% is low. 50% seems to be standard in a lot of games. 60% always felt like a good return to me. 70 or higher is simply too high.

The return value should also apply to any other thing that costed money. That is, if you allow recycling of units.

 

turrets, specific support buildings and using superweapons require power

It's a choice, most common in C&C games, not in other games. Personally, I discarded the whole power thing, unit's don't require power either. But if I where to add this "power need" than units would get it as well in the form of food and or ammunition. If it lacks, then they would slowly die and/or stop fighting. On the other had, you could store power, food and ammunition too. On a board, it's to much hassle, that's why the discard.

 

turrets can be upgraded with addons that affect damage and firerate, addons require additional power

Nice touch. Maybe units too? Still waiting for that kind of game. Make sure that the costs are balanced, if done right. After buying all the addons for 1 turret, the costs are correct. But the path to it will be "costly". Meaning, going for twice the fire rate and twice the damage. Is 4 times total damage. So you should pay +3 in total. Or +1,5 for each upgrade. While the first upgrade only adds +1. So you pay 50% to much for the first. Only an example of what you need to keep in mind.

 

addons remain after building is destroyed

What if the add-on is an extra top plate against aerial threats? Or a little radar on top for increased vision and range? Just asking. Make clear rules on how the addons work. A adapter thing for better power input? A changed input of ammunition for increased fire rate?

 

power is provided initially by base center, and later on by reactors which are separate buildings and by capturing support structures

This base centre seems to be an all rounder basic for a base. Sound familiar. I have the same thing :). And it is rather original. Only one RTS had this that I know of, but I forgot the name.

 

power provided at the beginning only allows basic defense

In other words, 1 or 2 times 5E remains for little turrets? And players can choose these instead of, let's say a light factory? A choice of starting your base is nice.

 

buidings are constructed at the base center and additional construction yards which allow constructing multiple buildings at the same time

Yes, I dislike increased production speed. It is simply not "realistic". No matter how much this is used in games and how unoriginal it is, it's still the best. I am just happy that Dune2 had it done right.

 

there are reactors of higher tech level which are more expensive but produce more power, lower tech level reactors can be leveled up at smaller cost

What kind of tech levels and upgrades am I looking here? C&C dawn had x2 power is x2,33 costs. But space was saved. Red alert had costs x1,67 but it costed 50% more space. Upgrades, will they provide addons which cost space (SC), or not (Tiberian Sun-GDI)? Giving players a choice is nice, but might be confusing.

 

there are variations of resources which are rare but more valuable, they differ in colour

Yeah, I have seen the green and blue. But colour differences are to obvious. Here is an "original" idea just for you. Choose 1 colour. Than give it different depths of this colour. O wait, that's the spice of all the Dune games. Ehm, how about this. Start with the colour whatever, then choose a secondary colour that you would get by mixing it up. Example: Orange, but the intensity will be yellow. So Orange is worth 100%, yellow is worth 200%. Something in between 125 or 150 or 175% etc. Don't go red to yellow or blue to red. Because players see secondary colours as primary too these days. To spice it even up more, you could add some lightning or darkening if it goes to worth more.

 

Example of a big field with mixed intensity:

spilt resources can only be recollected by placing multifunctional extractors as they are mixed when depository is destroyed

Not split? I don't understand this. O wait, I do. This is.... Original. But does this mean that you are going to mix resources in storage? Or just 2 different resource silo's are both destroyed and the resources lay down there mixed? It depends on what resources we are talking here. Just minerals, and yes, you do need MIX specialists. But then you also need these MIX specialists for MIX fields and stuff.

 

(not sure about this) infantry upgrade facility has infantry heal addon, same for vehicles, but aircraft are repaired at addon to their production facility first decide how units will be upgraded

Like the armoury of C&C3? But then you need to upgrade the upgrade facility first?

I do like the fact that you want to use upgrade facilities for units. Does this mean you can upgrade each separately? I support this idea since it is still very original. However, I also suggest to keep the healing and repairing separately. 1 function for each structure is better then having 2 or more. Unless these are high tier structures.

 

in multifunctional extractor player chooses to focus on one resource type

Yes. This sounds like. "Do I know you?" This sounds like Wargame X.

 

resources are sometimes found as primary mixed with secndary (crystals in a pool of fluid), they are collected by multifunctional extractors which are bigger and more expensive

Ah, liquid and solid forms of the same resource. That is very original. Having them mixed, sounds very logical. Multifunctional extractors, 1 part solid, 1 part liquid, 1 part separating. So 3 times as big as 1 of each ^^. This is a very good idea. Keep this one in.

turrets built on top of resource depositories are merged with them, meaning they cant be destroyed first

They are part of the basic structure, that sounds good. I believe Starcraft 2 has this.

 

resource depositories can be upgraded to support turret placement on top of them, increasing hit points significantly and providing additional protection

Sounds good.

 

base center trains miners and repair drones

SWGB. But there aren't much games like this. So rather original. But combining the basic needs is logical.

Starcraft has these 2 in one unit. And they build too. SCV is OP :D.

 

higher tech level multi purpose refineries allow simultaneous collection of both primary and secondary resources

As mentioned before ^^.

 

neutral facilties (line 1) include small, self-sufficient structures that slowly grant small amounts of resources

Used a lot, but ok. I love these missions where you slowly get money and need to conquer more of these patches.

 

repair drones are weak and unarmed (like miners), they speed up building, vehicle and aircraft repairs but slightly increase repair cost

Starcraft SCV.

 

if unit repair station idea is implemented, repair drones could be assigned to work at them

Structures where units work. Always nice.

 

***resources will always be transferred to base center when its not full (priority over depositories)***

Might as well give the players a choice of order. In some missions the new silo's might be in a better position.

 

workers can be transferred to other extractors

Logical.

 

***forget bull...t fat above, all types of resources are mined by placing a refinery and assigning limited number of workers to them, they are constantly garrisoned, no refinery-base route***

Reducing base weakness, some players love it. Others don't. The choice is yours. Personally, I don't give a c... :)

 

***when base can not hold additional resources depositories are built and player chooses which depository will be used by which refinery, they must not be at unreasonable distance***

It depends on your resources types. Silo's are multifunctional if you think about it. And what if you want to reassign because you recycle another?

 

***passive collecting, discrete spending http://www.oxeyegame...source-systems/

It's a choice. And these days games have active and passive collecting. It allows for more missions.

However, with the discrete spending (which I vow for too), you get full refund in Starcraft. I rather see, that you only get a part back. Use your recycling percentage for this. My example is 60%. Meaning, if you cancel something which costed 100 (%). And it was trained for 50%. You get 50% full refund, and 50% recycling refund or 60% out of 50% is 30%. A total of 80% comes back. Sounds logical, right?

Ow and, that company stopped with RTS??

 

(not sure about this) support building where repair drones can be assigned to speed up overall building repairs, optional, not primary purpose

size and capacity of an extractor depends of fesource size and tech level

No opinions on these.

 

extremely powerful "titan" units, huge, unique, expensive and slow to build, with unique abilities, constructed with a side building that garrisons drones to speed up construction

Total Annihilation. But I like these units. But always remember to build in a weakness.

 

titan units are visible to all players while being constructed

Noooo!!, and also not after they are done too. I hate this vision stuff. Also with other super weapons. They are supposed to be "secret" surprises! Dammit. My opinion completely, it's your choice.

 

mobile deployable turrets

Not sure about this, sounds like the mobile artillery units from several games. But you call them turrets. Ah, the Tick Tank is some sort one of them.

 

long battles (high hit points, low attack damage)
What factor are you planning? Most games have 6 to 7 with equal units. Wacraft2 had something like factor 11. I don't know about Dune2 though. But that one felt very slow.

 

 

 

Note: this is only a part of the concept, as I couldn't copy all of it. As you can see, the focus is placed less on collecting resources and more on construction, upgrading, battle and protecting collected resources. Many ideas here may sound stupid and/or unoriginal to you and that's perfectly fine. I actually wrote this in one night. Thank you for being patient enough for reading this huge post. Looking forward to your comments and suggestions.

Place something like this, in the front :D. People will read your post in an entirely different emotion.

[random guy]

Thank you for taking your time to reply, your opinion is much appreciated. My post was a mess, let me clear things up a little and answer to your suggestions.

I liked the idea of KKND style construction, but that way construction yards wouldn't make much sense, plus i want to be able to place a turret instantly before the enemy has a chance to destroy it without it even being finished. Of course, it takes time to construct a building before its placed.

Subterranean combat? Never thougt of it before. I might consider it.

If the price of upgraded turret is proportional to its effectivity, hit points should also be taken into account because for the same price we could place four turrets of the same type which would be equally effective but would live four times longer. Just a thought. But for turret addons i meant ones like those in Revenge of the titans, except they would be fused together.

By upgrading units i thought of a system used in starcraft and similar games. Your idea seams original and interesting but upgrading individual units would be too much hassle. What maybe would be better is a system where upgrades are very expensive and player chooses to make individual commando units out of ordinary ones.

Idea of turret remaining after builing is destroyed is now officially out.

Building plus upgrading a lower level generator would be a little more expensive than building a higher level generator, they would both take up same amount of space.

Yes, possibilities with different value minerals are limitless.

About spilt resources... there is only one type of silo and it stores both liquid and solid resources in one building, but separated. When the silo is destroyed, it seems natural that they will be "accidentally" mixed and they will need to be collected and separated again.

Workers work inside a refinery but the enemy can take advantage of the moment when the player moves them to another refinery.

Assigning a silo to a refinery would not be permanent, player could change his mind at any time.

Your idea of recycling really makes sense. I like it.

About hp/ad factor - I dont want battles to be too long (boring) but I also dont want them to end before the even start. It's a choice i'll have to make during the making of the game. (if I ever make it...)

And finally, titan units. Kind of like experimentals in Supreme Commander. You are right it's much greater joy when your enemy sees your titan coming out of nowhere and he had no idea you were building one! It is certainly a better idea and the enemy can still scout to see if you are making one. But would he have time to prepare his defences if surprised? I would either have to make them very slow (logical for heavy units), make them vulnerable to certain attacks or give them some other kind od handicap.

[MrFlibble]

random guy, no idea why your post got split in two in mid-sentence (mid-word to be exact), but I fixed that.

[X3M]

Sub terrain

Tibarian Sun has sub terrain units, but can't fight under ground.

In one of my board games, you actually can. In fact, you need a sub terrain shock wave weapon for clearing mines. That will be the very first sub terrain weapon in my game.

Red Alert has Sub Marine. Same principle, different weapons.

 

Upgrading turrets

Of course you need to take Health into consideration as well. :). I was only talking about damage costs, my mistake that it wasn't clear.

Basic balance would be, Health + IX times Damage (and everything that is bounded to this)

Whatever kind of formula you choose for balancing, you need to use this formula for every possibility of turrets with upgrades. With doubt, you might consider allowing only 1 upgrade.

 

About hp/ad factor - I dont want battles to be too long (boring) but I also dont want them to end before the even start. It's a choice i'll have to make during the making of the game. (if I ever make it...)

Decide now. Really, it's for the best. Decide on the balancing factors. Then design the units you want. Only then design the rest of the game around your units. If you go the other way.

You don't know how fast you want or "can" heal/repair your units.

Construction speeds are still unknown.

Your tech tree is still unknown.

What kind of production facilities do you need?

etc. etc.

 

If everything is done. Only then you might adjust your factor if you are not satisfied. But then you are only going to adjust health OR damage. Probably health, since you want to keep healing and damaging at the same rate.

[random guy]

Thanks! This was very helpful (no sarcasm).

[MrFlibble]

Sub terrain

Tibarian Sun has sub terrain units, but can't fight under ground.

In one of my board games, you actually can. In fact, you need a sub terrain shock wave weapon for clearing mines. That will be the very first sub terrain weapon in my game.

Red Alert has Sub Marine. Same principle, different weapons.

Actually, the submarines in Red Alert function in exactly the same way as Stealth Tanks in C&C, except that they are naval units. Also they rely on the range of their torpedoes rather than accuracy, as is the case with the Stealth Tank's missiles.

But the game logic for cloaking and submerging is the same.

[X3M]

True,

 

But I would love to see a game where submarines act as if they aren't cloaked. And can fire from within the deep. As it should :)

Why are they not treated like air units (infinite ammo), but then under water? Would have made much more sense. Of course you need special anti sub weapons. You still can add the stealth function.

[MrFlibble]

IIRC in A.R.S.E.N.A.L games the subs can only be detected by destroyers, while other ships can't spot them on their own. Also, while they don't have limited ammo, they need to refuel regularly (as any other unit in those games though).