Dante Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 So Obama goes on about hope and unity and working together and respecting each other and you still think competition is a good thing?One would think that cooperation would be a preferable alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Do they normally not announce the middle name of presidents during ceremonies (when they introduced obama they said H. instead of Hussein)?Sadly, yesterday I skimmed over America's Great Depression book, and what Obama wants to do is what Hoover did which only made the depression/recession worse. Instead of letting the recession occur they do everything possible to try and avoid it which only delays it and makes it much worse than a normal cyclical problem.The book written in 1963 shows the problems that occured in the past, and it still shows those exact same problems occuring 40 years after the book was published.But I'll leave that critique for the $1CAD=$USD thread.Glad to see Bush gone. Hopefully Obama's hope can power the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatfsh Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 One can still honor all of those fine qualities and still be competitive. Surely, you noted his comments defending the market/capitalist system. Did you not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Do they normally not announce the middle name of presidents during ceremonies (when they introduced obama they said H. instead of Hussein)?Sadly, yesterday I skimmed over America's Great Depression book, and what Obama wants to do is what Hoover did which only made the depression/recession worse. Instead of letting the recession occur they do everything possible to try and avoid it which only delays it and makes it much worse than a normal cyclical problem.The book written in 1963 shows the problems that occured in the past, and it still shows those exact same problems occuring 40 years after the book was published.But I'll leave that critique for the $1CAD=$USD thread.Glad to see Bush gone. Hopefully Obama's hope can power the economy.He said his middle name when being sworn in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Obama becomes president and the stock market decreases 4%.Coincidence?This is people pulling money out of markets because they know a democrat president will destroy the economy./sarcasmOn the more realistic side it will be interesting to see if the 8000 DOW bottom will hold. The last several times it reached this bottom it went up shortly afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Sadly, yesterday I skimmed over America's Great Depression book, and what Obama wants to do is what Hoover did which only made the depression/recession worse.Take anything written by Rothbard with a massive grain of salt. There is a huge libertarian propaganda machine in the United States dedicated to the sole task of rewriting the history of the Great Depression and hammering home the idea that the best government response to a recession is to ignore it and hope it goes away.More generally, never fully trust history books written by non-historians with a vested interest in the historical period they're writing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Yes, there always needs to be groups critiquing the mainstream economic principles. This way neoclassical can defend its principles, and may even add more to it or slightly change it.Critiquing economic principles was very important 1700-1900 when economics was starting. Yes, rothbard and austrian may be at the opposite spectrum of neoclassical but helpful in identifying possible problems. They do make some points that are true (banks can not fail, which we continue seeing).When looking at current conditions, it appears that the tax rebate cheques that was borrowed from China had no effect, it appears cutting the interest rate to 0% has had no effect (and now that it is at 0% they have exhausted that monetary tool, end up with same problem Japan had). So what is left? Spend more money the USA never had? Bail out more FAILED businesses? Gee you can't run a profitable business so we will give you funds so you can continue operating. Banks took large risks to expand and increase profits and when things went bad they don't have to worry because someone will save them.Or maybe these spending programs are helping, but for whatever reason everything keeps getting worse. It would be interesting to see sometime if the government did not interfere with some aspects to see what happens, to at least prove neoclassic or austrian economics are correct. Blindly following neoclassical and doing the same thing every recession may not be best course of action. Or maybe the problem is not the neoclassical solutions to recessions, but what creates them in the first place (aggressive expansion?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It would be interesting to see sometime if the government did not interfere with some aspects to see what happens, to at least prove neoclassic or austrian economics are correct.The Baltic states (especially Estonia and Latvia) are currently trying out that experiment in non-interference. It seems to be a huge disaster... But of course, as the Austrians will be quick to point out, there is no such thing as a proper scientific experiment in macroeconomics. There are simply too many variables that could bias the results.Also, remember that neoclassical and Austrian School economics are not the only two schools out there. There is also heterodox economics, and of course the Marxist school.Blindly following neoclassical and doing the same thing every recession may not be best course of action. Or maybe the problem is not the neoclassical solutions to recessions, but what creates them in the first place (aggressive expansion?).Now THAT is precisely the Marxist approach to the problem. The question is not how to get out of a recession, but how to stop one from occurring in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Now THAT is precisely the Marxist approach to the problem. The question is not how to get out of a recession, but how to stop one from occurring in the first place.It would be interesting if the US gov did not invade Iraq and have trade/budget deficits forever. Maybe that helped in creating a recession?They have massive debt, and the solution to the recession is even more debt? Once they start spending like crazy it will be very difficult to stop the spending (political suicide). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandChigger Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It's all about competition with you people... Like there's something wrong with working towards a common goal.BRAVO!I sometimes seriously think party affiliations should be renounced if not outright banned once someone takes office. The only questions an elected official should have when facing any decision are (1) how does this serve my constituents? (2) how does this serve the country? Party and/or personal considerations shouldn't apply.Obama has been sworn in! I'm listening to his speech right now. It's nice to hear optimism for once, even if it is a bit saturated with patriotism. I stayed up until 2:00 AM to watch him get sworn in. The patriotic rah-rah-rot is for the lower 50%. (=The half of the population below average intelligence.) Plus I think he meant to send a "Don't mess with me" message to the stroppy towelheads.I could have done without the hypocrite's invocation and the nice lady who read the Vogon poem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I sometimes seriously think party affiliations should be renounced if not outright banned once someone takes office. The only questions an elected official should have when facing any decision are (1) how does this serve my constituents? (2) how does this serve the country? Party and/or personal considerations shouldn't apply.We have that in Romania for the office of President. The President is forbidden by law to be a member of a political party or show favoritism towards a political party.And it doesn't work. All past Presidents, and especially the current one, acted as if they were members of political parties anyway. The fact is, you can't stop people being friends with whoever they like; and at its most basic, a political party is just a group of friends or allies. People will have partisan loyalties whether you like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It would be interesting if the US gov did not invade Iraq and have trade/budget deficits forever. Maybe that helped in creating a recession?It very likely made it worse, but government debt or trade deficits did not create the recession (in fact, trade deficits aren't even necessarily a problem, in and of themselves; only budget deficits are). Periodic recessions are an inevitable consequence of a capitalist market economy - that fact is accepted by all economists, even the most ardent defenders of capitalism. If you want to keep capitalism, you have to live with recessions. Having said that, however, it is possible to see a recession coming and take measures to delay it or make it shorter and less bad.They have massive debt, and the solution to the recession is even more debt? Once they start spending like crazy it will be very difficult to stop the spending (political suicide).Not true; governments often cut funding to all sorts of things without it being political suicide.A proper Keynesian counter-cyclical policy is for the government to save up money as a surplus during good times of economic expansion, and spend that money like crazy during a recession. Enormous spending during a recession is a good idea. Enormous spending during a period of expansion is irresponsible; that's when the government should be saving. There should have been a nice surplus at the end of the Bush administration that could now be spent to combat the recession. Unfortunately, as we all know, there isn't one. That's a problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandChigger Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The fact is, you can't stop people being friends with whoever they like; and at its most basic, a political party is just a group of friends or allies. People will have partisan loyalties whether you like it or not.Ah well. You dream your ideal world and I'll dream mine, in my dotage. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Don't undo Bush's work, China tells ObamaObama suspends 9/11 case prosecutions for 120 days in GuantanamoObama supports terrorism!Not true; governments often cut funding to all sorts of things without it being political suicide.I agree that they cut funding to all sorts of stuff without the population knowing. Remember when the US gov shutdown http://www.economicindicators.gov/ due to budget cutbacks? The US gov shut down an economic website during (actually before) an impending recession. To me the reason was purely to hide economic data. One day in Iraq could probably fund the website for 20 years. But nope, something needed by American people and businesses is shut down, while a war based on lies continues.Hmm, looks like the website is still up actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The Obameter: Tracking Obama's Campaign PromisesPretty cool.Obama retakes oath of office after flubThat damn Republican Chief Justice tried his best to make Obama look bad. Obama did a decent job remembering a speech, yet Roberts couldn't remember a couple lines? The only thing he needed to do?Obama freezes salaries of some White House aidesDuring this recession Obama should be increasing wages so that people have more money to consume!But instead Obama is selfish and freezing wages./sarcasm//a poke at Edric and how decreasing wages is bad for economy according to neoclassical ;)///maybe it doesn't apply to overpaid workers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazelord Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Most Americans are FU** dumb OMFG. Why can't people wake the f*** up and listen to Ron Paul??? He is truly a patriot! It should be every Americans duty to vote for a human being who fallows the US constitution instead of breaking it, like every other president that we have had since JFK. The IRS shouldn't even exist according to the US Constitution and Ron Paul. It is illegal and unconstitutional to force people to pay income tax. Man, Ron Paul truly stand for everything that's right! People open your F*** eyes and elect the right person for the next term. IDIOT! It is so frustrating to see people fooled by mass media! Shut your T.Vs off and read about every individual who is running for president, on the net or each runners web page or their books. OPEN EYES :O OPEN MIND! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandChigger Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 <img src="http://www.hairyticksofdune.net/extimgs/feyes.jpg" />Did you want me to open my F*** You eyes or my F*** Me Eyes?I forget which the above are, probably the latter, but you can assume they're the former.The last time I opened my mind, my damned ass followed, and it all ended up being a real pain in the butt. Thank god for the Salvation Army, you know?So this Ron Paul dude ... he the one owned the candy bar factory back in the 70s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazelord Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Every time you speak America goes down the shi* more, we have lots of people like you in this country, blind and unaware, we don't need more so we appreciate your opinion but no thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 With an attitude like that, you're sure to win more people around to your point of view! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandChigger Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Goes down the shi*?Shia? The Boeuf? Cute but hideous actor, right?Shib? Boleth?Shic? Oui, c'est vashement!Shid? Past tense of shide?Shie? Got nuttin.Shif? Make $picy car change gear, go fas?Shig? Past tense of shag?Shih? Bu-shi. Keshi wo bu dong.Shii? Hoo muss bii obeyed?Shij? Something Arabic?Shik? A brand of razor?Shil? Harriet Klausner!Shim? Unisex oblique?Shin? Bone connected to da, ankle bone!Shio? Salt in Japanese!Ship? Mine done sailed. :(Shiq? Bis encore?Shir? Hobbit-land?Shis? Cocktail ingrediant?Shit? Oh...is that what you meant? ::)Is it some kind of incantation thing, the act of speech an act of magic? I speak and America goes down the shit. Oooh, Chiggah mojo! For my next trick....! Mmm...got nuttin again.Seriously, who the hell says "go down the shit"? That doesn't make one chicken fricassee bit of sense. Goes down the shitter = toilet, sure. But goes down the shit? Where the heck did YOU learn yer English? Kentucky? (When I was growing up in Ohio, we used to make fun of the Kentuckians. Dummer 'n rocks, some of 'em. :P )Gawd, but you're excitable, aren't you? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandRider Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 that was almost worth logging on here for ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazelord Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 SandChigger if you don't know what that phrase means I truly feel sorry for you but we do have people here who have graduated high school. I can send you some links if you need to get your HSD. ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The two of you owe me a new sarcasm detector. It's not built to take loads like that!(On a more serious note, spaze, shut up :)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandRider Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 seconded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazelord Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 The two of you owe me a new sarcasm detector. It's not built to take loads like that!(On a more serious note, spaze, shut up :)) Wow arrogance keeps growing instead of declining. We have another one! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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