Ellinas Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 For what I conclude by myself: House Atreides descend from the Greeks (The name Atreides, first names of the ancestors of Leto and Paul, Caladan has a Greece like climate etc.) House Harkonnen descend from the Germans (The Harkonnen name, their appearance, their relation with industry etc.) House Corrino descend from the Italians (Their name, they are the ones who rule the empire - bringing in mind the Roman empire. However many of the Corrino first names are Arab-like. The Fremen descend from the Arabs (Their appearance, way of life, people and place names, their traditions have many Islamic elements.) I would like to hear what the Dune experts know about that. Am I right? And who the other houses/communities descend from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Well, one out of four isn't bad... :PHouse Atreides was said to draw its line directly back to the Greek hero Agamemnon, and indeed the word Atreides is of Greek origin (Atreides = 'son/s of Atreus, Agamemnon's father was Atreus). You could draw parallels between Caladan and Greece, although the similarity of the name to Caledonia, the latin for Scotland, might lead one to think twice. Personally, I think they are both coincidences and that Caladan has little or no implied relation to any modern country.We believe Harkonnen to stem from either Finnish or Germanic roots; there are a few topics on the subject that you can search for. I would hesitate to link them to anything through industry. The Dune Encyclopaedia apparantly (I haven't checked) writes that they were descended from the Romanov line of Russia. The Corrino took their name from Corrin, Battle of. So prior to that the family's name was not Corrino, and thus no connections using it can be made.The Fremen were descended from zensunni travellers, and sunnis are muslims. Therefore one would imagine that their belief has some islamic roots. There are more details on this that I'm sure one of the others will explain, but it's not an area I find particularly interesting. However, these are a whole people, not a family. It would be highly unlikely that they all share a common genetic lineage. Their way of life is simply explain by their location. They live in a desert. It is therefore likely that they would adopt similar methods of living as those who have lived in deserts before, even if they have no connection.Exact lineage has been debated before, and one important point to keep in mind is that ancestry is not precise. No family confines itself to those of a particular nationality tracable back however many generations (those that do tend to die out). Given the time involved, it would be not improbable that everyone in the Imperium would have at least one ancestor from every currently existing country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 How far into the future are we talking?It's 10000 years After Guild. What distance from today exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 Well, one out of four isn't bad... :PHouse Atreides was said to draw its line directly back to the Greek hero Agamemnon, and indeed the word Atreides is of Greek origin (Atreides = 'son/s of Atreus, Agamemnon's father was Atreus). You could draw parallels between Caladan and Greece, although the similarity of the name to Caledonia, the latin for Scotland, might lead one to think twice. Personally, I think they are both coincidences and that Caladan has little or no implied relation to any modern country.We believe Harkonnen to stem from either Finnish or Germanic roots; there are a few topics on the subject that you can search for. I would hesitate to link them to anything through industry. The Dune Encyclopaedia apparantly (I haven't checked) writes that they were descended from the Romanov line of Russia. The Corrino took their name from Corrin, Battle of. So prior to that the family's name was not Corrino, and thus no connections using it can be made.The Fremen were descended from zensunni travellers, and sunnis are muslims. Therefore one would imagine that their belief has some islamic roots. There are more details on this that I'm sure one of the others will explain, but it's not an area I find particularly interesting. However, these are a whole people, not a family. It would be highly unlikely that they all share a common genetic lineage. Their way of life is simply explain by their location. They live in a desert. It is therefore likely that they would adopt similar methods of living as those who have lived in deserts before, even if they have no connection.Exact lineage has been debated before, and one important point to keep in mind is that ancestry is not precise. No family confines itself to those of a particular nationality tracable back however many generations (those that do tend to die out). Given the time involved, it would be not improbable that everyone in the Imperium would have at least one ancestor from every currently existing country. Well it isn't bad don't be ironic :D. I am not that old to Duniverse.The name Harkonnen reminds more a Danish name, however your explanation is the most logical: that they are from Slavic and Germanic roots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caid Ivik Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Dune Encyclopedia has much about such things. Altough not in style as ie Silmarillion is to Lord of the Rings or ahnlich. But about Harkonnens, once we had even a visitor from Finnland who had such name here, so I would look there for the roots ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I was amused to see that the name of the Bene Gesserit planet was Wallach IX. During the middle ages romanians were called wallachians, and the name of one of the three middle age kindgoms was Wallachia.The english translation is innacurate, as the original term was "vlah", "valah". The funny thing is that only the foreigners refferd to us with that name, in that time this "nickname" was quite offending for us.One other name is Ordos, as I found out at one time is the name of a province in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Is the Dune encyclopedia available online? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihail Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 The Dune Encyclopaedia is hopelessly hard to find online, as Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson(Damn them! Damn them to 50,000 years in Hell!) have declared it non-canonical and have stopped it's printing. So your best bet to find it would be on Ebay(Although it costs a small fortune) or a good library. Sorry. I gave up looking for it some time ago. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFlibble Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I guess this may help:There is a nice English *.pdf at:http://www.thedune.ru/encyclopedia.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 LOL the site has a winter facelift! The Fremen is wearing a Santa hat LOOOOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihail Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I guess this may help:*Sob!* Why do you hurt me so, MrFlibble?! WHY?! When I tried it, it gave me a 'Problem loading page' and said thus:The connection has timed outThe server at www.thedune.ru is taking too long to respond.Why?!Why, for the love of Frank, WHY?! I presume it works for you? If you could, could you send me the .pdf file? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I takes a lifetime to attach on Yahoo. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihail Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I takes a lifetime to attach on Yahoo. :(Ah! Nevermind, it is working now. Now all I need is Dante, so I can grin smugly when he finds out that I got the Dune Encyclopaedia for free while he must have paid some outrageous sum of money to get his hands on it. Well, I didn't get it for free, I paid with my eyesight, but meh. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHJ BV Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I once got the Encyclopedia off Emule, but it was one big .txt file full of typos, so I never read it. Thanks for the PDF :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Book > PDF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihail Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Book > PDF. True, but free > $$$, in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Why is Dante so cheap with words? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFlibble Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 He's right, book is certainly > PDF, but then again, PDF > no book at all ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted January 20, 2006 Author Share Posted January 20, 2006 I guess this may help:Thanks for this my friend. I knew that Russkis rule :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 True, but free > $$$, in most cases.PDF = lack of demand on publishers for printing new copies of the Encyclopaedia = self-justifying prequel authors. Buy it. Why is Dante so cheap with words?Every so often I grow tired of my own circumlocution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 ;D Word are not something to grow tired of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted January 21, 2006 Author Share Posted January 21, 2006 I downloaded the encyclopedia and I found out that most of the Dune houses communities are based/originated in real historical groups/cultures. Frank Herbert had a very good historical knowledge. After my search in Dune encyclopedia I found out the following:Old Terran housesHouse Steel: RussiaHouse Washington: USAHouse Windsor: BritainHouse Abraham: IsraelHouse Ur-Haq: PakistanHouse De Gaulle: France (??)House Nippon: JapanHouse Zedong: ChinaHouse Gandhi: IndiaDune houses/communities and their Terran originHouse Atreides: Greek originHouse Harkonnen: Russian-Greek originThe Fremen: Arab originHouse Medvedev: Russian originHouse Ginaz: Hispanic origin|House Wikkheiser: Dutch originHouse Isfahan: Persian originHouse Andersson: Swedish origin (??)House Ordos: Chinese/Mongol origin (??)House Moritanni: Italian origin (??)House Wallach: Vlach origin (??)The Bene Gesserit originated from the area somewhere between Mesopotamia and India, I could not conclude the exact location.I realized that Corinno is not exactly a house like the others, but the house which rules the empire takes the title Corrino. The generation of Elrood/Saddam must be of Middle Eastern origin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I'm so amused you say Vlach and not Romanian ;DIs that how you commonly call us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihail Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 PDF = lack of demand on publishers for printing new copies of the Encyclopaedia = self-justifying prequel authors. Buy it. Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Andersen have declared the book non-canonical and have gotten the publisher to stop printing it, and I doubt they're going to reconsider their position. IE, no permission from BH and KJA= No more printings of Dune Encyclopaedia. :- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted January 21, 2006 Author Share Posted January 21, 2006 I'm so amused you say Vlach and not Romanian ;DIs that how you commonly call us?Well, from what I know the Vlachs seperated into too kinds: Romanians and Aromanians. The Romanians stayed in the Danube area where they are till today, but the Aromanians moved to the South in other Balkan countries. Many of them came in Greece also - Today we have about 100,000 of Aromanian descedants here. The word Wallach reminds us all the Vlachs. Aromanians also, which are not considered Romanians. Please correct me if I am wrong, you know your country's history better ;D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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