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Is doofus another slang? I'm sorry, but I'm not too familiar with informal language. Heh, I didn't know the contaminator thing was a joke, though I would gladly like to witness its implementation should it be successful.

You still have not told me why bad strategies can be used well. Have you heard of the Atreides Brick Wall? It was this strategy that came about some time back, can't remember when it was formulated, but it was a darn good strategy, at least on paper. But its implementation was difficult in the hands of most players (especially me, who is lazy to put kindjal infantry all over the place). However, veterans like you could easily pull it off. So is that a bad strategy? Bad strategies don't make bad players. It's bad techniques that make bad players.

Bad strategies will show people what NOT to do once people have really downright proven it to be stupid. Since you have agreed that 50 contaminators (got the figure right) thing was a joke, I suppose it really doesn't work then. So it's a really stupid strategy. Now that's one thing people know they should not attempt. But what about other strategies? I can't really think of many strategies that are inherently stupid. Perhaps you could contribute further to the community by providing us with a list of them, experienced one?

Spectral Paladin not accepting facts? He could have tried to prove it himself, but until then who can say he is denying facts? Your screenshots, though very well-done, merely demonstrated some artificial effects. I believe your proving of the hawk strike's range, but not everybody would accept things as the way they are. Some people can be more critical than me. Spectral Paladin is one of them.

In fact, you could have enhanced the credibility of the screenshot further by using the hawkstrike and showing the whole sardaukar mob running in a certain direction under the effects of a hawk strike. They would be covered in a blue aura, which will prove your point. People can still be critical of it, but proving it this way would prove your point much better.

Cheers. We are still friends, right?  :)

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(to the second last post) Where's the link?

(to the previous post) That depends on how you do it. The strategy takes advantage of the duration of projectile motion for the minotaurii projectiles. If your laser tanks get too close, you are bound to have a problem there.

If only deviators were faster ;D

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Yeah, he's quite right in saying that it depends on the mino horde. Using lasers could work on isolated minos, from about 1 to 4 (rough figure). Projectile motion will tell you that a lone laser tank can easily avoid all the salvoes of several minos. Once you have a few laser tanks in action, you'll have a problem there.

Instead of using deviators that are easily negated by elites, how about using projected deviators? You can manage them to strike different parts of the horde.

If you're talking about a 20+ horde, you're better off getting an ally to help.

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yea projected deviators would be the ideal thing to use vs huge hordes.... you could wipe out a horde fast... but the problem is that most people dont feel comfortable without both fremen and sards.  Its a hard decision figuring out which to give up.  If you give up fremen you can no longer make worms if you give up sards then you will have a weak frontline.... it a tough decision.

You are probably better off trying to use devastators or worms to kill minos.... or if you are rich make tons of advanced carryalls to steal minos.

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its hard to explain... its sort of like an adaptation... you dont go straight to Minos... you must start out with buggies and infantry and regular sardukar at first... in order to defend vs harkonnen and Ordos attacks.... you cannot just go straight to minos or you will get rushed hard.

Then once you fend off the initial rush attacks ...you will switch to Minos and then switch to elite sardukar.

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quote gunner154:  If there's one sure-win strategy it would be hacking the game. i couldnt agree more :)

and one thing id like to point out about deviators vs lone(no kindjal support)minos they literally owwn them

its the use of theyre(slow?) movement vs the arc of fire and number of barrages(5?)of the minos, run past(not into)

the minos to draw theyre fire..then as they reload(cooldown) the opportunity should be taken..

better yet you could use a dust scout to draw fire if your mm isnt that good..just a suggestion

and my previous posts id like to reitterate..the point i was trying to get across is, there is no 1 sure win solid 'unstoppable' tactic in the game(with respect to standard houses only), if there was id stop playing, and that even a turtle has to attack the enemy some day or there wont be anything to win with.. you DO have to kill theyre base after all right?

c&c generals and zero hour is a game you could sit back comfortably and win without doing much,but Emperor? thats a game im not too sure of,even the max super weapon charge speed is limited (for that reason?)

so all in all i believe 'turtling' in its idle(not moving at all) state is not valid in emperor with any house vs good smart players (probable vs ai or unexperienced players though?) so many variables to this game lol, it just keeps giving and giving

(for any team?-theres a bit of gas for the fire)

edit quote spectral paladin:  This thread does not suggest the ordos could turtle and win. It suggests that ordos could turtle and never lose. In addition, it concerns only ordos vs atreides..

if u mobilise your ordos turtle units then yes i would think so -this might mean moving a few units around to suit its needs though ;] so that might make it an aggressive defender ..?

also gunwounds you make a good point with mino splash vs laser groups..a single deviator is a better option,

or if your very good at micro you could use singular laser groups(key bind) hit and run..but thats a bit suicidal if you dont have much room for error(fallback space/time to live :)

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Simple equation to why Ordos turtling doesn't work:

Long-range weapons: mortar and kobra

Mino = longer range than both

Inkivine = longer range than both

= Only way they could gain the advtange is if they stayed on cliff edges. By then the enemy would hunt their harvesters, killing their economy. When this happens it doesn't matter if I make one kill a 400-unit attack, you won't have the cash to rebuild your losses. Slowly I'll eat your soul.

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1)and one thing id like to point out about deviators vs lone(no kindjal support)minos they literally own them

2)and my previous posts id like to reitterate..the point i was trying to get across is, there is no 1 sure win solid 'unstoppable' tactic in the game(with respect to standard houses only), if there was id stop playing, and that even a turtle has to attack the enemy some day or there wont be anything to win with.. you DO have to kill theyre base after all right?

1)deviator own minos even kindjal support them :) it was other unit(you will know what I meant) ;)

2)those are examples how subhouse help ordos vs atr

sard elites

= help to ordos for drop mino or sonic n they can stop some atr air units. and they help ur fire with ur kobra deviator or some other units(like mortar) when u fight vs mino hoard with elites(even I agree atr slight better than ordos in late game even-skilled guys.(but mass trike or fremen-warrior n mass mino kill em

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ok pearl,

heres why i think subhouses are a bit too much for standard units

GON: niab tank cannot be chased by Any unit on the ground,they are too fast,to armoured too powerful and self healing add to that they can be anywhere they like at any time given the 5 second cooldown after teleporting..they are the ultimate hit and run unit, nothing can touch them at all in the hands of a skilled player..so i hear they are banned from many games..as for the maker: iv never seen anyone use them,but they can kill groups of infantry without a sweat if used right

sardurkar: both units have a lot of armour and health which makes standard anti infantry units(sniper chem bikes dust lighttroops-etc) a lot less effective on mass, they are what i call meatshields(units that can take a lot of damage, while the real damage gets done by the rest of your army)

and elite and anti everything, they hit ground air and infantry and have the range of mortar(or near it) which outrange pretty much anything except long range units kobra/mino/inkvine

using air units when elite are near is denied also,because unlike the standard anti air units/drones/mines/anything else most use rokets...which can miss if your skilled enough..but lasers never miss

Fremen: Permanently stealthed, only uncloaks to fire or when near death,is not affected by spice booms, still more health than standard infantry

,again need more than 1-2 snipers per warrior, 1 or 2 freydakin can ride worms and destroy thousands of solaris worth of heavy slow moving tanks be it harvester mino etc, the only thing stopping that(quickly) is light arms fire and snipers..1 of these units only atredies gets and is the most effective at stopping them..

tilexu(spelling, i know), leeches in the hands of a harkonnen player could be the most anoying unit in the game vs your economy(you could use buzz to cut up theyre nearby spice forcing them to go further,  a leeched harvester cannot be carryalled..same holds barred for any other unit that deploys..they wont be able to deploy..(no other unit does that?) this really effects ordos morely in the case of kobras though as for contaminators? well no one uses them, dispite the level of health and armour they could be used well in a rush with mixed units..just for meatshieling..a bit much if you know how to use them early game..

ix: stealth base destroyers...like fremen  they require you to stop building infantry and make scouts to spot them $500 to take a fac down to 50% tell me another $500 unit that can do that in one hit,

the problem here is it slows your infantry down while theres does not,of you dont use scouts your base will be gone

projectors:another underrated and underused unit FREE TANKS?  cmon?!  clone deviators? missiles? sonics? that is a bit much no?..all u need is 1 hit  right?

theres a few more intricate details on subs as well,but for the most part i think the reason i dont see a lot of ordos players nowdays are because of elite vs shields.. my point is  reguardless of how  little overpowered(however small that advantage is) is an advantage you wouldnt have if you were not using subs(or if you werent the 2 magical 'anti your house' subs) u only get 2 right? theres 5 right?

and please dont ever say to me again, you NEED as in DEPEND on subhouses again, that is shameful ..you say that again ,and that means to me that you declare this game is unbalanced without them...may westwood have mercy on you..that goes for anyone..have a little pride in your game, and some respect for the games designers..

on a different topic though, think about this for ordos vs ordos...deviator vs laser group(useless?)..deshild your own deviator!(2 dust x 4 shots x half screen--just enough to have the devi 3/4 health)..then deviate 1 laser..chances are the deviator will get 1 shot then be killed(if more than 4 lasers) ..but they will loose 2 lasers for the price of 1 deviator..not bad huh? not bad..iv sen the deviator take 4 laser hits before after i deshielded :) an interesting study :)

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You may dislike sub-houses Eid, but I would suggest that you put all this effort into learning how to use them. It will be almost impossible to get a game online without using them (teams games that is). To date you are the only one I know of that doesen't ever use them. Man, just use em for gods sake.  ;) Can't speak for anyone else, but I can honestly say if there is a 4 plyr game and you dont ever want to use subs, I'll pass on being your ally.  If you want I will be glad to show you how to use them anytime. Trust me they are needed.  ;)

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i dont disagree and i dont hate subs, i like them, they are cool to use,,

fun units like the quads from the first 2 games..

and in no way do i think the devastator drop is overpowered,

or id hafto say so is the sonic and deviator..which is not true at all

but some of the subhouses can take the need for other units that are rarely if not, ever still used like the 'useless' air mines...

thats the only reason id rather not use them in 1v1 mainly, 

ill go random in team games becuse some ppl choose different factions as well,

and unfortunately some ppl just want to play to win,

as opposed to see what your units can really do..

iv seen a bit on different gameplay tactics on this forum and some of it is impressive,

like the mcv move on 2v2 maps, tho risky can change the game that much if it works..

the secondary/tertiary bar war slowdown find..pretty interesting stuff,well to me it is heheh

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