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Ahem the point of the thread is to prove that contrary to popular belief, ordos do not automatically lose to atreides in late game!

Not doing a very good job of it are you ? :P

As for non spice map, like I said, it doesnt really happen at the moment. And what about a few hawk stikes taking out the AA defense long enough for a mino drop or 10 ?

Or is that another condition in this sterilised setup for this "game" ? ;)

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I know my points are valid. From my first post you can see I don't believe I could pull this off against an elite. But I have done it against lesser players and know it's possible.

Hawk strike is no problem. A few hawk strikes? The gap between hawkstrike uses is way too large so you 're really talking about a single hawkstrike. Which isn't a problem because though impressive the area it affects is really small. Sure a lot of infantry would go but much more would remain.

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Hawk strike is no problem...... Sure a lot of infantry would go but much more would remain.

Hawk strike not sw for the purpose of eliminate units. got hawked units remain or not no problem. anyone can explain it easy for example what aim for real hawk strike? ::)

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I know my points are valid. From my first post you can see I don't believe I could pull this off against an elite. But I have done it against lesser players and know it's possible.

Hawk strike is no problem. A few hawk strikes? The gap between hawkstrike uses is way too large so you 're really talking about a single hawkstrike. Which isn't a problem because though impressive the area it affects is really small. Sure a lot of infantry would go but much more would remain.

Anything is possible against lesser players... please dont base your beliefs and strategies off of lesser player conquests.

Thats why alot of these stupid posts get created in the first place... people thinking that they can do something just because they managed to pull it off on some noob.

Hawkstrikes are a HUGE problem.... how can you fight off a mino hoarde when he keeps striking your units off the damn map like lasers and elites?

Also if he makes 3 palaces the Hawkstrikes come VERY fast..... and what are you going to do if he saves the hawkstrike for the middle of battle?

He might just save it for when he brings down his mino hoarde and use it on your frontline of kobras... then you are screwed as you just lost the pivotal battle.

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You couldn't be more wrong about the Hawk strike. Have you seen the area it affects? How many kobras you really think I would lose? As for hawk strikes coming really fast with 3 palaces...yeah right. Try it and see how fast they come.

By the way if my opponent has hawk strike then I have chaos lightning and his mino hoarde (or army in general) is weaker too. Apparently that didn't cross your mind.

As for what you said in the beginning, you obviously misunderstood the topic's purpose. I don't think it bothers anyone if some topics in the strategy forum are not elite stuff.

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Do a little testing before you talk...even if you tried hard I seriously doubt you could fit 40 sards in the area a hawkstrike affects. And it would never affet 5-6 kobras at the same time.

I am aware that having 2 or 3 palaces will speed the hawkstrike charging but it still is slow.

Anyway I will say no more. I should point out to you though that strategy forums are to discuss strategies. Any strategies.

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yes by all means discuss strategies but dont spread false information.

And as for the hawk strike i guess you just dont know how to aim it.

And dont talk to me about testing... i am the one who regularly posts screenshots of the game backing myself up...just go browse the Emp forum. i even disproved you when you said that the hark infantry didnt do double the damage of atreides inf... remember that?

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HERE IS HOW YOU AIM A HAWKSTRIKE SPECTRAL PALADIN

aim0ss.jpg

NOW HERE IS THE DIAMETER OF the HAWKSTRIKE..... I HAWKSTRIKED MY OWN UNITS SO OF COURSE THEY WONT HAVE THE HAWKSTRIKE ANIMATION ON THEM BUT YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE the DIAMETER OF THE HAWKSTRIKE AS IT DISSIPATES.....IT CLEARLY CAN COVER 6 KOBRAS....

YES THATS RIGHT 6...didnt you say it was impossible?

strike1pm.jpg

FOR my next trick i will post a screenie of 40 sards in an area of the hawkstrike to show everyone how you have no clue what you are talking about.

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OK TAKE NOTES SPECTRAl ... THIS IS HOW YOU AIM THE HAWKSTRIKE AT SARDS...

aim25vu.jpg

WOW LOOK AT THIS.... CAN IT BE? IS SPECTRAL PALADIN WRONG AGAIN?..... YES IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAWKSTRIKE 40 SARDS.

strike29rl.jpg

I should start charging you people for all the lessons i have given.

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you know whats funny? it only took me like 5 minutes to setup that test?... isnt it worth it to take 5 minutes to setup a test to backup what you say instead of looking like a horse's ass and giving false info?

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This thread is going way of topic .

You know well this is not a proper test you did because you didn't actually hawkstrike any units. I 'd like to the sards test with you online some time. Because though the visual effects are impressive, I insist the affected area is much smaller.

As for the kobras, yes you are right, 6 kobras can be hawkstriked. But noone would use such a formation to protect his base and you know that very well.

I have no problem admitting I am wrong if I am indeed proven wrong. But Gunwounds you 're doing nothing special really; you 're merely posting things you know from your experience. Anyone who 's been playing the game for four years should be able to do so.

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exactly... i am posting from experience... and just what are you posting from?

Thats the question...and the answer is NOTHING.

Experience is the only thing you should be posting from.... Hello McFly?

The kobras are setup in groups at times and in some cases it is preferable to have them like that.... not like you would know tho.

Also the sards will all be affected.... i have seen it many times and people have done it to me before as i watched in horror.

You have to understand that i only post from experience... i dont post out of my a$$ like you do.

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You know well this is not a proper test you did because you didn't actually hawkstrike any units. I 'd like to the sards test with you online some time. Because though the visual effects are impressive, I insist the affected area is much smaller.

It's not...

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I insist the affected area is much smaller.

Jeff is correct in his above post where he refutes you....

Thanks for the backup jeff... it seems some people (spectral) have heads made of concrete and just wont listen and refuse to admit defeat when evidence is clearly telling him the truth.

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I speak from experience too, little though it may be. So far whenever I saw a hawkstrike being used I thought "pff.it affected so few units?". I am an ordos player so I wasn't the one aiming the hawkstrike. I refuse to accept the evidence of your shot because my impression from those times was the actual area was smaller than the one encircled with visual effects.

I can see a reason why all of those sards could be eventually affected. If the hawkstrike is aimed at the centre then the sards affected will start fleeing, pushing other sards into the area. I 've seen that happen. But this would be the case if the hawkstriked player did not move away on time the units close by.

I am not the one who pretends to be never wrong. If it is proven I will admit it.

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I would just like to point out that although the SW info given in this thread may be argued, the actual reality of using a SW online in a real game with good players is almost unheard of nowadays anyway. Not saying they are never used, it's just rare.

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imho the only real weakness that the hawk strike has is,, the affected units  exit the map (random exit?)

assuming they are ground slow moving targets(like sard) its possible to block them from moving with other units(after the hawk strike has ended , or at least block the exit, you wont loose any units that way..provided they dont get attacked..

but still it 'disables' ur affected units for a time (bad if they run across enemy fire)-which i hope the atr player  uses , exellent vs harv/carryall pikups because it takes both ca's and harvs they have off the map very fast and its pretty difficult but not impossible to block air targets..

i dont think the 'range/affected area' has much use this way(in ur test)  morely, like chaos, its good to use on moving targets passing through..that way all who do are affected not just the ones targeted..make them run through  it? an idea?

but back to turtling(the post topic) in my opinion there is no turtle that wont be overwhelmed eventually not even atredies or harkonnen.. provided they are sitting back at base waiting--using air/sw/drops--the only way? it only takes the appropriate unit combination to pick it off 1 by 1..

add to that a turtle at base will run out of room to mass and build..

anyway spec  u saw my turtle yea? i restricted ur movement and massing by camping near your base  and  taking your spice field..

the only way out was for you to sneak another base ...which you did :]

so yes ordos can turtle contrary to what some think..but only for a while..an ordos turtle is the easiest to ovewhelm with numbers and range...

good for getting them to spend money on things they think they need..while you tech up for a counter counter..it buys you time,it wont win the game, add to the fact that ordos are cheaper(tech unit price wise) as well means they spend more money and time than you do even for a counter//or counter counter :]..unless we're talking ordos vs ordos :)

by the way dont tell anyone about my new tactic..!  sshhhh :] keep it to yourself until i get discovered :P

heresy grows from idleness

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Anyways you are correct... the strategy forums are not for top-of-the-line strategies ... they are more of a general guide-line of how to play.... because anyone can see from reading most of the crap in this forum that it is totally useless for online play against anyone with any degree of skill. I'm not talking elites i'm saying even average players wouldnt even use this crap.

Plus you guys degenerated this thread by posting about tangential things that only serve to confuse people... like trying to debate the efficacy of the Hawkstrike.  You guys have no clue how to debate strategies let alone come up with any.

Thank you for the screenshots. They could prove a lot of things (and have no reason to believe that you faked them). But that does not justify mocking Spectral Paladin. And if you haven't realised, a strategy forum is called a forum with a reason. It's where you debate over strategies. If there's one sure-win strategy it would be hacking the game. You could try, though I would strongly advise against that.

Even average players wouldn't even use this crap? I'm sorry, but I see no reason why not. And even if these strategies ARE crap, how does that justify NOT posting them in a strategy FORUM?

Besides that, regardless of whether strategies are crap or not, it really depends on how the player implements them. A mino horde can be deadly in the hands of a good player, but be reduced to rubble in my hands. At the same time, killing a base with 30 contaminators (something you've boasted about) is an absolutely crappy strategy, but if you could do it, it works. I don't deny that you are a good player (taking the assumption that you are), but please don't criticise others for strategies that they've posted, otherwise (using the traditional 'propensity of abuse' argument) you intend to risk a stagnation in the strategy forum, something I believe we all accept to be unacceptable (pun intended).

Back to the topic, hawk strike WITH a mino horde is really big and nasty, but an Ordos turtler who only sits in his base and does nothing (I believe this normally isn't the case) isn't going to get very far. Instead of engaging the mino horde from the front, how about attempting to sabotage it, just like Ordos have always been renowned for (or are supposed to be renowned for)? Dropping deviators, using laser tanks to hit-and-run and even using Tleilaxu Leeches could always be viable options. Then again, it depends on whether the player is using Tleilaxu subhouses, or has prepared Laser Tanks for the assault.

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You obviously don't get the point. What's a bad strategy? Haven't I clarified earlier that a strategy cannot be absolutely bad nor good because it also depends on who uses the strategy? We could all dismiss 30 contaminators killing a base as a terrible strategy, but if someone could actually do it, and on decent players, there has to be some trick in the way its implemented. Thus, you, as a highly experienced player (as you have put it) could perhaps share how you actually turned seemingly stupid strategies into killers. After that, fellow players can debate about what they think of your stategy, improving the way they should play as well as the way YOU should play. This world isn't about absolutes, and games are no exception.

And if a strategy is inherently downright stupid, then what you've just said could be correct. However, your 30 contaminators trick has just proven that this isn't the case. Instead of "BAD strategies should be posted in a strategy forum so people can know what NOT to do", perhaos you might want to change that to "BAD strategies should be posted in a strategy forum so people can determine why it's bad, try to improve it and ultimately learn from the debate".

Just think a bit more. Chess doesn't have absolutes either.

Idiot (n): A stupid person or someone who is behaving in a stupid way.

A real idiot wouldn't even be debating on this forum. He wouldn't even have an opinion. He wouldn't even know how to think. It is more than apparent that the people on this board have thinking and analytic capabilities. Calling these people idiots is tantamount to insulting yourself. I'm sure you are intelligent to figure that out.

No malice intended. Cheers. ;)

... And whoever said people don't normally play with superweapons is quite correct.

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